I'm not crazy about metalworking [updated] [quit bumping me]

[Crohns Racing]

Mods like Hydrocraft with it's heavy crafting focus and the recently revealed metalworking are starting to make it seem like everybody is trying to turn this into 7 Days to Die. Don't lose touch with reality on the crafting system, Indie Stone, take a look at The Walking Dead, I don't see anybody building fences out of melted down soda bottles in there.

Update: I have also deemed this as another step in trying to make wilderness survival far too possible. The whole point of wilderness survival in Zomboid was the fact that no matter how self-sustained you got, eventually you would have to make a run back into the city.

edit - Man this thread really has some backers, anti-metal uprising?


---ABANDON THREAD DEVS ACKNOWLEDGED US---

[Gekkibi]

I'm little bit worried about the metalworking

...Or rather what it represents.

Here is a link to the full text: http://projectzomboid.com/blog/2016/03/death-metal/

It's always nice to see new game mechanics that expand the gameplay without changing the scope of the game too much. However, I'm starting to see a trend with the new skills and crafting recipes. In multiplayer games this is rather a good thing as it forces players to specialize, but it really makes SP player's life a tough (and monotonous) one: right now you can take min-maxing to its limits if you want to use ("use", not "master") trapping, fishing, and the other locked features. I can only imagine what kind of things are locked behind two recipes (the furnace and even the anvil! Even I can hit hot iron against a concrete floor...). Yes, yes, the recipes can be found while scavenging (emphasis on "can"). After n patches I have to pick the truck driver profession (or read the driving school's pamphlet...) if I want to drive a car... ;)

I guess it's hard to balance SP while still keeping co-op interesting.

</outburst>

[Kuren]

I feel like this will be less of an issue once NPCs are in. I assume you'll not only have ones that you befriend to help you (like the real people you meet in multiplayer) but I hope you'll also be able to learn skills from some as well. So that way finding a master metalworker is kinda like finding all the metalworking books and recipes (possibly unlocking in some sort of tier system related to your level progression in the skill).

Currently there are a few things like this that I think feel slightly imbalanced (especially in single player) due to the alpha state of the game. Simply because related features aren’t in to have the effect they will once they are, and that's fine :) I just look forward to when they show up :D

[Gekkibi]

I didn't think it from that perspective. You have a valid point (assuming you end up being right, of course... ;) ).

[Benjamin37]

Honestly this game has always tended towards this way. If you wanted to have a nice base in SP, you had to have high level carpentry. Or if you wanted a sustainable food source, you must be a gardener. It's mainly a problem because NPCs aren't there to help flesh things. The truth is PZ isn't about being able to do everything yourself. Pick the way you want to play in SP and play that way. You aren't supposed to be able to do everything with 1 character. Sorry :/

[Crohns Racing]

I have similar concerns, I just made a thread on it too
http://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/385428943463493099/

[Gekkibi]

Originally posted by Jamin:

Honestly this game has always tended towards this way. If you wanted to have a nice base in SP, you had to have high level carpentry. Or if you wanted a sustainable food source, you must be a gardener. It's mainly a problem because NPCs aren't there to help flesh things. The truth is PZ isn't about being able to do everything yourself. Pick the way you want to play in SP and play that way. You aren't supposed to be able to do everything with 1 character. Sorry :/

Yes, yes. But the newer skills are not like carpentry or farming. They are locked by default (except for fishing. "Only" repairing is locked), and can only be unlocked by selecting certain profession (and in few cases, a positive trait), or by RNG (happening to find the right recipe magazine). I'm totally fine that I can't build better things if I lack the proper experience.

I'm not expecting to master everything, but being able to change the fishing line does not require higher education... But maybe I'm giving too much credit to the residents of Muldraugh and West Point...

Basically, I have a problem with the RNG. Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that you started with fishing skill of 0 and have lived next to the river for 20 months, fishing every day. Your skill is now 10, but you still don't understand what is the purpose of the fishing line and how the reel works. (but that is the topic for another thread...)

[Crohns Racing]

yes but explain how I get an entire metal ingot out of a tin can though.

[Gekkibi]

Ya, I think the smelting part is going to be too far fetched (and not very practical in real life, if you ask me). If they really want us to have metal barricades, then metal sheets found in warehouses ought to be enough for most of us.

Foraging and hunting was hard enough to learn. Soon we literally have to pick a profession and stick with it or else we just get confused while playing, thanks to overabundance of different mechanics. ;)

Or maybe this is a conspiracy to increase the price of forks, spoons and forks on servers. *puts on his tinfoil hat*

[Crohns Racing]

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

Yes, losing touch with reality is my main concern with the introduction of metal working, particularly smelting or locking away aspects of it behind speicalized tools such as ball pean hammers in a world where normal hammers also exist.

Mixed feelings.

Also I think the crafting of nails throws the balance of base building off by a ton, since late late game in MP nails become a sacred item that fortress builders will pay people top dollar for, now its just something that they can loot endless forks for and have their alt account have the blacksmith profession.
Sometimes in MP if I play as a trader I can just sell nails and axes to base builders for food.

[Obama llama]

Everyone has to realize that metalwork isn't going to be essential to your survival... hopefully.

[Kuren]

Originally posted by Gekkibi:

I'm not expecting to master everything, but being able to change the fishing line does not require higher education...

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that you started with fishing skill of 0 and have lived next to the river for 20 months, fishing every day. Your skill is now 10, but you still don't understand what is the purpose of the fishing line and how the reel works.

While I'm fine with how recipes and magazines work in the game now (and hopefully with NPC teachers too) I have always found this one fishing detail silly. I think a good way to fix it would be to make it so once you reach level 2 fishing you learn how to add the line automatically (like you know enough to figure it out now) or I've also seen people suggest that if you don't have the recipe you just use more twine/line than if you know it, which I think would also be fair.

[Gekkibi]

Originally posted by Kuren:

Originally posted by Gekkibi:

I'm not expecting to master everything, but being able to change the fishing line does not require higher education...

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that you started with fishing skill of 0 and have lived next to the river for 20 months, fishing every day. Your skill is now 10, but you still don't understand what is the purpose of the fishing line and how the reel works.

While I'm fine with how recipes and magazines work in the game now (and hopefully with NPC teachers too) I have always found this one fishing detail silly. I think a good way to fix it would be to make it so once you reach level 2 fishing you learn how to add the line automatically (like you know enough to figure it out now) or I've also seen people suggest that if you don't have the recipe you just use more twine/line than if you know it, which I think would also be fair.

Yes, this kind of skill level-dependent recipes would fix few problems. Start with basic crafting until you have gained levels, and then you can start making more complex ones (just like carpentry works. No need to read Ikea's catalog before you can create a bookshelf).

By the way, this is exactly the "topic for another thread" I mentioned earlier. ;)

There are now (at least) 2 metalworking threads. Could mods either lock this one or merge them together, as the topic hardly requires two threads from two slightly different angles.

[Bulk Bogan]

well in real life it would not be that hard to do metalworking once you have the supplies and the knowledge...even though theres only so much you can do without heavy machinery. It would not be to hard to put some scrap metal or something on windows/walls...idk im on the wall on this metalworking thing.

[Primo Victoria]

Although I do not agree with your starting comment about the walking dead ( this game is not an exact represantation of the series in any way -but its so cool that it has some similarities with it I must admit-)
I do have to agree that metalworking will set base building a bit off with crafting nails and i will explain why in general. My opinion is that the game's core idea that I am afraid we are losing touch with is that, the game should become so difficult in one point (late game) with scarced resources etc. that it will force you to take more risks and go that extra mile each time you head out or caught yourself in a situation to optain that sacred material that will help you survive a bit longer, making it more exciting and dangerous..Thats the basic thing i am afraid that the over the top crafting system could affect this came at its core in the long run changin everything.
*Just food for thought* P.S: I Love the game!

[Erduk]

The only metalworking I'd be interested in for this scenario is welding and casting bullets. Welding would make electricity more useful too. I wouldn't even want to make a sword, I'd just sharpen a piece of metal already laying around if I needed a blade. This isn't necessarily a gameplay perspective though.