First Aid is just not viable at all.

[Eric James]

After getting acclimated to the game, I've discovered that First aid skill is absolutely broken as is. Upon researching the skill, I've discovered that the process players use for leveling this skill is by taking off your shoes and walking on broken glass over and over again. I am not sure what the Devs intended with this skill. But, I sure hope they don't feel it is a solid skill for players in the current state. Most of what I am hearing in the community is that it is not. Most say that if you are constantly getting first aid you're going to die soon anyway. So, I just want to emphasize a few points and hopes the devs might consider a rework for this skill and some possible ideas to approach it.

1. Walking over glass again and again and bandaging yourself is kind of comical. It does not feel right as a game mechanic and seems not what is the intended pathway for the skill. Might I suggest implementing medical journals in the game that would potentially boost your First Aid skill in the game when you find them.

2. The benefits of this skill by no means justify the work you have to put in to achieve the skill. I believe the community is right when they say becoming dependent on the current First Aid skill or relying on it at all, is not viable approach to the game. Might I suggest rewarding players with the ability to diagnose medications? For example: When players come across loot, they will find what appears to be a bottle of pills. With 2 skill levels in First Aid, the player can identify pills pain killers. At level 4 they can identify pain killers and beta blockers. At level 10 they can find the rare cure for zombification. These are just suggestion of course. Players without the Medical/First Aid skill are just guessing at the medications and could be taking something that is potentially harmful.

3. The Doctor and Nurse Occupations are almost completely ignored. I haven't seen anyone play these seriously. This is unfortunate. If there are adequate rewards for pursuing the first aid skill, these occupations would be far more utilized. Also, some special benefits for the occupations would help. Here is a suggestion. Just like the Burglar can hot wire a car. Maybe a Doctor would be able to make some kind of serum in the lab that would allow him/her to go undetected by the zombies for a half an hour game time?

Anyone else have thoughts on first aid and how it can be improved? I would like to hear them.

[Grishnerf]

first aid is kinda useless if you die anyways from a scratch.

only way to make it useful is with playing infection transmission off.
then add some sprinters or Cdda zombies to the mix and you have to bandage and heal yourself all the time when swarmed from 3 angles at the same time.


but overall the medical system needs an overhaul for sure.

[Dryden]

It might be better to just rework it from a skill to a trait. That is, unless the devs have something in mind for how to make it useful and maybe different way to level it than to first cause yourself harm.

[martindirt]

At current state of the game Fa skill is pretty useless, don't matter if you play with or without transmission on.
You just tend your scratches, and other injuries.

Later, when there will be NPCs, I'm sure the skill become more important:
Tending to others
Tending yourself after a fight against NPCs
Inspect others wound, and find out if it's zed infected or just common infection. (You don't want to share bedroom with an infected person, do you?)
Curing animals

I'm see FA as a placeholder skill in it's current state.

[Armagenesis]

Maybe it’s just me being cynical, but regardless of the revamp made in the game, doctors should be useless regardless. Lol. Their job is to tell you what you need to ingest to feel better, applying first aid and concocting the drugs/herbal remedies are EMTs/Paramedics’ and Pharmacists’ jobs.

But that aside, I feel like the only way for first aid to become relevant is to introduce other health risks outside of the existing external wounds, namely all sorts of illnesses (TBC, typhoid, dengue fever, snake bites, and whatnot). And maybe also change the name with something with a broader term, like “health” or “medicine” maybe.

With all conveniences gone, those diseases can be as life threatening as the zombie virus. Even something as simple as a scratch from a rusted blade can be fatal.

With that idea, here are what probably will need to be added to the game:
- More variations of illnesses outside of the existing cold and generic fever.
- More plants and herbs that can be foraged/farmed to treat said illnesses. (already in the works, yay.)
- More pre-existing drugs in hospitals/pharmacies that can also be used to treat the illnesses. Which maybe can also be deconstructed to concoct new/compound drugs.
- More books that will teach you to do all that.

On top of all that, maybe lock the drug part to level 5 first aid and up to give a reason to level the skill up. Or level 5 first aid needed to “understand” the medical books. Or something like that basically.

[Animalman]

First aid might be more viable if animals can hurt you. They have this breeding mechanic where you breed animals genes. So there will be a male cow somewhere. And he might do some damage not sure/ the chicken might scratch as well and if the wound is common for the farm life then first aid will be viable. There should be a bite risk on trap checking if the trap was non lethal like a box or cage trap. Animal bite that is.
Aside that it’s only viable for gunshot recovery. Which doesn’t happen single played

[Eric James]

Originally posted by martindirt:

At current state of the game Fa skill is pretty useless, don't matter if you play with or without transmission on.
You just tend your scratches, and other injuries.

Later, when there will be NPCs, I'm sure the skill become more important:
Tending to others
Tending yourself after a fight against NPCs
Inspect others wound, and find out if it's zed infected or just common infection. (You don't want to share bedroom with an infected person, do you?)
Curing animals

I'm see FA as a placeholder skill in it's current state.

What an excellent point about the NPCs. When they get NPCs into the game, being able to tell which ones are infected would be very helpful. Especially if NPCs will be around you and there is a chance they could turn into a zombie while you are sleeping.

Also, having NPCs not telling people they are bit is an excellent element of many Zombie horror movies that I think would fit nicely into the game.

[Siodog]

Originally posted by Cat Supremacist SM:

Honestly, if any updates are made to first aid, I personally feel it should revolve mostly around herbalism. While modern medicine is awesome, and I like the idea of having blood pressure and ♥♥♥♥ like that to make it more realistic the approach they seem to be taking is letting us make medieval versions of things from the modern era. Being able to craft drug cocktails and such as if it were cooking would make a really cool medicine crafting system if the ingredients gave specific effects which could allow for dynamic recipes. It would also allow the players to experiment with various herbal tonics and their effects. Tonics, pills, all kinds of things can be made through herbal medicines and it would fit zomboid beautifully imo.

That's how it work with mods on our games, first aid is requirement to craft medicine, pills, boosts etc. Even a cure at max level. Prob something that will come in the next build with profession rework

[Animalman]

Maybe they could scrap bottles of beer for their pure alcohol value using a tool that uses propane. Make a sort disinfectant out of them. Use it on rags and bandages. Or make a Molotov with it.

Though meds are common as hell, as the map is so large. To go for the isolated medicinals I would say needs a great wilderness expansion of the map. A well made one, with some natural places to live. Places where there is only gas stations, and country bars along a very isolated road of simple design very few paths. Where there is not a hospital or dentist for miles. Maybe some Native American zombie tribes and tepees hidden out there. hmph. But as far as I can think of there are places for meds everywhere. I can’t think of the furthest you could be from one. Unless it’s been looted.

[hermanJnr.]

They should add some sort of rare prototype chemicals in the more dangerous Military bases in Knox County that, with Level 10 First Aid, can be researched if you find specific lab equipment.

This could give you the ability to produce an anti-infection serum that requires a lot of medical items for one shot. This cures the Knox Infection early after exposure ONCE, at which point you have to find all the rare materials again if you want to craft another shot.

The shot could take time to work and have a bunch of side effects that force you to lie low for days, too. Also, if you get infected from two wounds, the shot only works for one. So you'd need two shots, which would be extremely difficult to stockpile and you'd probably die anyway.

I think that'd be a big buff to First Aid, while remaining balanced and also improving the late game a little by not just making unlucky scratch = instant death.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by hermanJnr.:

They should add some sort of rare prototype chemicals in the more dangerous Military bases in Knox County that, with Level 10 First Aid, can be researched if you find specific lab equipment.

This could give you the ability to produce an anti-infection serum that requires a lot of medical items for one shot. This cures the Knox Infection early after exposure ONCE, at which point you have to find all the rare materials again if you want to craft another shot.

The shot could take time to work and have a bunch of side effects that force you to lie low for days, too. Also, if you get infected from two wounds, the shot only works for one. So you'd need two shots, which would be extremely difficult to stockpile and you'd probably die anyway.

I think that'd be a big buff to First Aid, while remaining balanced and also improving the late game a little by not just making unlucky scratch = instant death.

Actually i think it would make more sense if you could make certain medicine with the skill.
Like Antibioticum, antidepressant and such. (Hell even alcohol).
That would make the skill slightly more useful, as most of these (beside antidepressant) have a "finite" number on the map and thus you can eventually run out of them.

[Animalman]

Originally posted by Beltneck:

Originally posted by Animalman:

tepees

Tipi/Tipis*

Teepee is a boomer spelling.

I think teepee is what kids do on Halloween throw toilet paper over a tree so it looks like a tipi


…


It would be pretty cool, they could have objects that you inspect for recipe, such as a recipe for spear fishing is gained by inspecting the fishing spear at a native location. Recipe for some additional forage herbs that could by high value to medicinal craft. New weaponry like a pole arm spear can be found inspected and then craft. Ability to make shoes.
And before you reach the outback there is one last hospital with a warning sign that this is the last hospital for X hundred miles. In the same location also a propane shop. Player drives out there feels safe. Next time they see a zombie it’s going to be a jump scare and wearing fancy headgear.

[hardy_conrad]

Yeah I doubt you'd find a lot of people saying first aid is fine as is. If it were removed from the game entirely it wouldn't make much of a difference so long as you could still bandage. Good point about how ridiculous the glass walking business is, hadn't really looked at it that way myself. Even if first aid could craft antibiotics, so what? Infections are just as irrelevant as first aid, which is pretty sad in comparison to other games like Rimworld.

Will it matter when animals and NPCs arrive? Not gonna like, I'm not sure animals and NPCs will EVER arrive. Like at an absolute minimum I'll believe it when it happens. Don't get me wrong, the game is amazing when you have a good mod situation. But if the only option were base game I'd have stopped playing a long time ago.

[Lminith]

Nurses sacrifice 6 points for +2 First Aid (which is basically worthless) and +1 Lightfooted (which is good for the Level Bonus to move undetected). Nurses Forage bonus are restricted to mostly bandages and meds.
An Unemployed can use 6 points to get Gymnast to get +1 Lightfooted and +1 Nimble (bonus on movement speed while u're on combat stance, which is pretty good) and has better forage bonus.
Comparing them we can see Nurses are worse in several aspects and better on none.

Doctor sacrifice 6 points for +3 First Aid (worthless) +1 Short Blade (while useful early on it's the worst combat skill). Doctor Forage is the same as the Nurse, which is bad. Only advantage is a defined Spawn location.
An Unemployed can use 6 Points to get Stout for +2 Str (ignoring a -2 Str debuff) which is helps on several things and is always stronger than a non used combat skill.

So ofc no one plays them because an Unemployed can be better at their role.

Both are bad picks Occupation wise.
Options to balance:
- First Aid gets more useful (create weaker versions of meds?)
- Free Herbalist
- Handicap less severe
- Extra Forage, 5% on Wild Plants, Vegetables, Fruits, Berries and Mushrooms would make sense and help balance a bit the Forage, going more into the nutricionist role and as parts of meds

PS: There are people that actually grind levels of First Aid? :O

[Animalman]

Well, although I agree first aid is not the best skill.

There are ways to make a build when picking traits for example net you

125% fitness
125% strength
75% lightfoot
75% nimble
75% sneaking
75% long blunt
75% short blade
75% maintenance
100% carpentry
75% first aid
75% electrical
75% mechanic
75% tailor
75% aiming
75% trapping
75% foraging

So if you know you are going to survive because you are mechanically good and experienced with the game, then first aid is the hardest skill to grind. So it’s best to have a good boost in first aid so that the little injuries you have tripping over fence etc, can all contribute to meaningful skill growth. More impact if your neck got lacerated on the instant effects of healing applications.

So if you make a wide build, for a long term survive, then bringing first aid is smarter than bringing farming or cooking

[Gena Cider]

turn off transmission, and it will heal wounds faster. if you get a bite wound in your right hand you won't be able to fight for a long time.