Gold and Silver in Build 42

[stevasaur]

Had some thoughts while re-reading old Thursdoids and planning out a new Zomboid run.

It's very probable that Build 42 will include the return of some form of smelting and smithing mechanics to Project Zomboid, based on commentary in Migrating vs. Crafting and other Thursdoids that touch on the planned skill revamp. And one thing that Project Zomboid players will often do is hold off on crafting any skill-dependent item out of rare materials until they have a fairly high level, so as not to "waste" resources.

After the update to Build 41, zombies started carrying a lot more jewelry. Finger rings, belly button rings, ear rings, bangles, nose studs, necklaces etc. Individually each one is small and light weight, but if you're a thorough scavenger, you'll accumulate a very large amount of gold and silver in the process of day-to-day activities and killing the zombies that try to get in your way.

I could see players intentionally using gold and silver to level up their metalworking by making low durability, low-quality weapons and tools out of melted-down jewelry in order to husband their relatively-limited supply of steel for high-quality tools and projects.

From a game mechanics perspective, it makes a certain amount of sense that resources available in small amounts from very common enemies would produce less efficient tools/weapons than materials that are only available in fairly limited, non-renewable amounts.

From a realism perspective, it would make sense that gold and silver as materials would be subpar weapon/tool materials.

It seems plausible, based on player behavior, the current state of the game and what we've heard so far, that one of the common sights in Project Zomboid post-Beta 42 would be an amateur metalworker running around with a gold or silver Hunting Knife because they wanted to "save" their steel for higher-quality projects.

What do y'all think? Do you think this is a reasonable extrapolation of game mechanics? Do you think there's place in Project Zomboid's gameplay rhythm for gold and silver tools as low-tier metalworking products?

[-> SUUM CUIQUE <-]

Build 42?

[Mushroom Steve]

I can see it being melted down for the raw material; Bar or rods of precious metals. Probably (I assume) great trading commodities when the npc's come about. Or the jewelry itself.

I don't see it being used as weaponry really.

[stevasaur]

Originally posted by Mushroom Steve:

I can see it being melted down for the raw material; Bar or rods of precious metals. Probably (I assume) great trading commodities when the npc's come about. Or the jewelry itself.

I don't see it being used as weaponry really.

...Why would NPCs accept gold and silver as trade goods when they are readily available off of corpses if they are not useful for anything?

[Grishnerf]

in the endtimes , only high calories-food is worth like gold.
i trade all my base for your 2 cows.
lets see how it plays out :D

[Larus]

Collecting, smelting, casting and then sharpening precious metals that are inferior to iron (as weapons) seems awfully impractical. We still have metal sheets, fences and similar things in such a abundance that it would last multiple lifetimes. Sharpening those into makeshift knifes would yield superior weapons with less effort.

Still, these metals are easier to recast than iron. So I guess it wouldn't be entirely pointless if we're allowed to recycle weapons. I personally see their use more in crafting electronics than weapons.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Larus:

I personally see their use more in crafting electronics than weapons.

that was the point i was planning to make when i first read this thread (but got distracted)

however, precious metals and jewels will still have use as a currency due to being small and easy to transport in large quantities - but their value will be for circuitry and drill bits, and other uses of that kind (crystals for piezoelectric stuff etc)

and while a gold sword would be next to useless - i'm going to be wanting me some silver bullets to deal with those damn werewolves :-)

[Tasolth]

Gold and silver make excellent material for electronics. In fact they are better conductors of heat and electricity than copper is, it is just that they are cost prohibitive normally.

Metal is metal though when you have little. They do not hold a good edge though as said.

[Cash]

Shouldnt copper be in this game? A house has a couple of kgs of copper inside it at least in the form of pipes and wiring. Perhaps difficult to implement?

[Mushroom Steve]

Originally posted by stevasaur:

Originally posted by Mushroom Steve:

I can see it being melted down for the raw material; Bar or rods of precious metals. Probably (I assume) great trading commodities when the npc's come about. Or the jewelry itself.

I don't see it being used as weaponry really.

...Why would NPCs accept gold and silver as trade goods when they are readily available off of corpses if they are not useful for anything?

Probably because they didn't have to go get it themselves and they have some hope of using it afterwards.


Every piece of apocalypse media still has people vying for "useless" items. Cash, gold, paintings, whatever.

Why would it make more sense to make a bedazzled katana than it would to trade a bangle for some bread?

[stevasaur]

Originally posted by Mushroom Steve:

Probably because they didn't have to go get it themselves and they have some hope of using it afterwards.

Every piece of apocalypse media still has people vying for "useless" items. Cash, gold, paintings, whatever.

Why would it make more sense to make a bedazzled katana than it would to trade a bangle for some bread?

Because that exchange only makes sense (outside the very early game when there's still hope of rescue) if the person with the bread not only has more than enough bread, but has confidence that they in turn can swap the bangle to someone else who has something they want and are willing to give it up in exchange for something unusable. And why does everyone's mind immediately jump to katanas whenever smithing is brought up? Spearheads, brigandine plates, arrowheads, hammers, nails etc are almost inevitably going to end up being the bulk of what metalsmiths produce.

The reason you'd make gold/silver tools is because it takes a whole pre-event house's worth of metal to make a single metal crate(!). Not to mention the lower melting point of precious metals means you'd need a less sophisticated work station to process them (with presumably a lower resource cost than a full-blown steelworking furnace).

Project Zomboid has already made its point about post-apocalyptic consumerism: the folks who embraced it are in the mall north of West Point. They're dead.

[Animalman]

In real life —-

Tin melts at 160 in the oven.
This means that tin foil cannot exist. Instrad aluminium foil exists. Aluminium melts behind 1500. Gold is around 1000*. The difference between gold and tin is huge because it’s the difference between using a household oven and kiln. You might fire pottery at similar temperatures as gold.

[Mushroom Steve]

Originally posted by stevasaur:

Originally posted by Mushroom Steve:

Probably because they didn't have to go get it themselves and they have some hope of using it afterwards.

Every piece of apocalypse media still has people vying for "useless" items. Cash, gold, paintings, whatever.

Why would it make more sense to make a bedazzled katana than it would to trade a bangle for some bread?

Because that exchange only makes sense (outside the very early game when there's still hope of rescue) if the person with the bread not only has more than enough bread, but has confidence that they in turn can swap the bangle to someone else who has something they want and are willing to give it up in exchange for something unusable. And why does everyone's mind immediately jump to katanas whenever smithing is brought up? Spearheads, brigandine plates, arrowheads, hammers, nails etc are almost inevitably going to end up being the bulk of what metalsmiths produce.

The reason you'd make gold/silver tools is because it takes a whole pre-event house's worth of metal to make a single metal crate(!). Not to mention the lower melting point of precious metals means you'd need a less sophisticated work station to process them (with presumably a lower resource cost than a full-blown steelworking furnace).

Project Zomboid has already made its point about post-apocalyptic consumerism: the folks who embraced it are in the mall north of West Point. They're dead.

If it's about availability, why smelt gold/silver at all then? A gold/silver hammer is arguably worse than a steel/iron one. Same for an axe head.. Or a screwdriver, even.

Steel and iron is extremely common? There's literally tons of it wrecked across highways, piped through walls, and surrounding your food. It's not a metal shortage, it's a gas shortage, since your blowtorch is finite compared to all that metal. Nobody's producing propane anymore.

Doesn't matter how far into the apocalypse you go, bandits and traders alike always go for the shinies.

[Cash]

If there was copper, combined with small amounts of tin smelts into bronze and then you got a more useful metal.

[Animalman]

Tin, Copper and Quicksilver Mercury

No

Based on the animal breeding mechanic genetics mechanic

Id like to see proper metal working, as in ability to create alloys. Such as brass.

I have made such system for a space game I made once, where alloy can be created from every raw element but I don’t expect that is useful here. But a jeweller certainly bridges the gap allowing simple jewels to be glued to weapons or simple plates be hammered. Not so much a metal work major, but perhaps it is a magazine driven low exp yield activity

[Retro]

Originally posted by -FANE-:

Build 42?

Are you confused?