So are you telling me that a guy can miss point blank headshots while standing still from a meter away with no panic because his aiming level isnt enough

[half]

How realistic this game is, truly wonderful.

[half]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tame:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย finger:

oh yeah lets make it so you miss point blank shots because 3 percent of the world population cant shoot

Most of non-Americans, you mean? Get some perspective, little man.

the game takes place in america lol

[Waggy]

The first time I went to a gun range I missed a bunch. Sure, not from 1 meter, point blank is different, we put the target as far as it could go, then half way, but most shots went all over the target except the center, so not where I was "aiming"

Hitting point blank is easy but hitting any other distance takes practice.

[ArsenalFC1886]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย finger:

How realistic this game is, truly wonderful.

If you want realistic, don’t play video games. See how well you do then.

[half]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ArsenalFC1886:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย finger:

How realistic this game is, truly wonderful.

If you want realistic, don’t play video games. See how well you do then.

create a zombie virus and give me guns

[ArsenalFC1886]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย finger:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ArsenalFC1886:

If you want realistic, don’t play video games. See how well you do then.

create a zombie virus and give me guns

Lol, just so you miss at point blank range and get eaten?

[RocketPillow]

There is no possibility in the universe that a person capable of operating a gun, is also capable of missing a point-blank range shot, with the zombie's head literally eating the barrel.

[half]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ArsenalFC1886:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย finger:

create a zombie virus and give me guns

Lol, just so you miss at point blank range and get eaten?

maybe

[sokolov]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rocket:

There is no possibility in the universe that a person capable of operating a gun, is also capable of missing a point-blank range shot, with the zombie's head literally eating the barrel.

Yes, in our universe that definetely wouldn't happen.
But in an universe where guns don't even fire actual bullets but are just chance-based long range melee weapons it would happen.

[Thundercracker]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย MOD.EST:

That's why you see a lot of professionals fire with the middle-finger as opposed to their index because they get a better range of control pulling.

my dad (also a vet) shoots like that. index finger extended as if pointing, with the middle on trigger duty. he's always claimed it had to do with aiming, as you are able to point at things better than hold a handle at things.

i've tried it like that, but i am just more comfortable with the more traditional index finger trigger pull.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Calico-Jack:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tame:

Most of non-Americans, you mean? Get some perspective, little man.

For perspective - even Texas only has around 21 gun owners per 1000 capita eligible.

Not everyone is a gun owner in the US and those that are own multiple guns.
Also worth mentioning only a fraction of the guns actually owned in the US are registered. All those prepper communities.

a counterpoint to that, not everyone who is a "firearms expert" is a gun owner. i am able to proficiently use, and service up to the depot level, every firearm in general use in the US army circa 2005, yet i do not own any guns myself, nowadays.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Waggy:

The first time I went to a gun range I missed a bunch. Sure, not from 1 meter, point blank is different, we put the target as far as it could go, then half way, but most shots went all over the target except the center, so not where I was "aiming"

Hitting point blank is easy but hitting any other distance takes practice.

that depends heavily on the weapon in question. one thing most people who have never shot do not understand is that bullets travel in an arc, and sights are calibrated such that that a fired bullet will be at the same height as the barrel at a specific range. without knowing how this works, you will never hit anything close up with a rifle, as rifles invariably have their sights zeroes for a few hundred meters away.

this means that, say, your average m-16, i have to be aiming at the crotch to hit center of mass at ~20-30 feet away.

pistols work the exact same way, but are generally zeroed for much closer ranges. however, pistol rounds are not rifle rounds. pistols rarely use the full metal jackets of rifle rounds, and are powered with far less propellant. combine with the much shorter barrel, and you have a weapon that is very inaccurate when it's not directly in contact with the target.

even with the M9, i had to aim into the dirt berm to hit the closest target on the range.

[LunarGatta]

The gunplay in this game definitely needs some reworking.

I have aiming 9, and even if i sit at the ideal range with an M16, it's STILL going to miss. The record so far is 4 fully aimed misses in a row before it actually hit. With aiming 9, and that's with Desensitized, i mean really?

Even with a nearly maxed out aiming skill, just use melee, it's better and far more reliable.

[Calico-Jack]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rocket:

There is no possibility in the universe that a person capable of operating a gun, is also capable of missing a point-blank range shot, with the zombie's head literally eating the barrel.

you're kind of missing the point - firing a gun at point blank range causes over-penetration, in short the bullet will pass right through the target, which is not what you want happening.

In fact the changes to weapon design that occurred between WW1 and W2, (various combinations of increased fire rate,, smaller calibre and shorter effective ranges), were responding to WW1 fighting conditions where rifles with hundreds of meters range were useless as guns in defending narrow areas like trenches once the enemy were inside the trench.

IRL the only situation like this people are likely to get into out side of war are hunters getting charged by a wild animal, in which case you want a weapon that has "stopping power" - ie it causes massive internal trauma that immediately incapacitates the threat, basically the opposite of over penetration.

Add into the mix the accepted Zombie cannon that only head shots kill a zombie, and you have a specific set of conditions where unlike shooting a charging animal, you will only stop a zombie by shooting them in the head.

Ever been to a RL shooting range with targets that move rapidly towards you?
Here's one in action designed to train poilice officers to deal with aggressive dogs. It's unintentionally hillarious but it is aimed at people who are trained in firearm use having to deal with threats that don't respond to human voice and or body language.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGieEeSJ-PA

[RocketPillow]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย EnigmaGrey:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rocket:

There is no possibility in the universe that a person capable of operating a gun, is also capable of missing a point-blank range shot, with the zombie's head literally eating the barrel.

Try that in many shooters and you'll just end up shooting through your target or the world geometry. PZ is not much different. Games are never a perfect recreation of reality and shouldn't be treated as such.

So, you're too close to the target for that weapon? Get a penalty. Maybe you roll a critical failure, maybe you succeed.

Clipping through the zombie? You're probably not even aiming at it that point.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Sokolov:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rocket:

There is no possibility in the universe that a person capable of operating a gun, is also capable of missing a point-blank range shot, with the zombie's head literally eating the barrel.

Yes, in our universe that definetely wouldn't happen.
But in an universe where guns don't even fire actual bullets but are just chance-based long range melee weapons it would happen.

Why the hell are you two talking about this like a bunch of meta gamers? Get immersed. As I drive across Knox County, searching the small towns in it for survivors, and an escape from this flesh-eating hell, I suddenly lose all that immersion when my bullets faze through a zombie because my character got a little scared.

The gunplay needs a rework and will receive one. There is no excuse for the current gunplay. It's bad, and I'll always use a melee weapon over a gun, unless that gun happens to be the shotgun.

[Calico-Jack]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย TheCampingOwl:

The gunplay in this game definitely needs some reworking.

I have aiming 9, and even if i sit at the ideal range with an M16, it's STILL going to miss. The record so far is 4 fully aimed misses in a row before it actually hit. With aiming 9, and that's with Desensitized, i mean really?

Even with a nearly maxed out aiming skill, just use melee, it's better and far more reliable.

When you say miss do you mean it doesn't down the zombie or that you actually miss the target?

Last time I messed around with guns about a week or two ago, I took a character with no weapons skills to see how long it would take to level them up to a point where guns were relaible outside of being noisemakers. At AIming 2 I was getting consistent shots (13 or 14 out of a mag of 15) with a pistol as long as I was stationary before aiming and when I fired.

[RocketPillow]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Calico-Jack:

Ever been to a RL shooting range with targets that move rapidly towards you?
Here's one in action designed to train poilice officers to deal with aggressive dogs. It's unintentionally hillarious but it is aimed at people who are trained in firearm use having to deal with threats that don't respond to human voice and or body language.

I can't say that I have, but I imagine a police officer trained to deal with violent dogs wouldn't suddenly have a problem dealing with a violent zombie, who is much slower and much bigger, just because a moodle tells them that they're panicked.

Even with shaky hands I bet most people would be able to land a shot, especially if it's only a couple inches away from them.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Calico-Jack:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rocket:

There is no possibility in the universe that a person capable of operating a gun, is also capable of missing a point-blank range shot, with the zombie's head literally eating the barrel.

you're kind of missing the point - firing a gun at point blank range causes over-penetration, in short the bullet will pass right through the target, which is not what you want happening.

Fair enough. The bullet will just past out of the back of the mouth, not doing any damage to the brain. If we remove the zombie's teeth from the barrel and place its forehead against the muzzle, then we'll have a different outcome. Brain explosion, bits of skull everywhere, instant zed death.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Calico-Jack:

In fact the changes to weapon design that occurred between WW1 and W2, (various combinations of increased fire rate,, smaller calibre and shorter effective ranges), were responding to WW1 fighting conditions where rifles with hundreds of meters range were useless as guns in defending narrow areas like trenches once the enemy were inside the trench.

Makes sense. In a zombie apocalypse, I wouldn't expect a long-barrelled rifle with a x8 scope to be as effective against a single zombie a few feet away as a pistol would.

In Project Zomboid, however, pistols are about as useful as the rifles in short-range. Thanks to random chance and panic and skill points making up the gunplay more than actual skill, you'll still miss even if the character is perfectly aligning the muzzle with the zombie.


I won't ever use guns as much in this game because, 1. they're loud, 2. they're last satisfying (a boot crunch or bat whack will always be more satisfying) and 3. the random chance that we'll be nearing 100 pages talking about.

My answer to the problem: wait for devs to make gunplay better, and stick with the shotgun and keep the rifles and pistols in the trunk of your car to never get any attention ever.

[RocketPillow]

Let's be honest, in reality, it's the panic and confusion that'd kill people more than the zombies. Unless they're running zombies. Then it's a different story.