Project Zomboid

Project Zomboid

TeosDy_ToasT 13 ENE 2022 a las 4:35 p. m.
2
Melee combat getting you down?
I have seen a few posts about combat being weird and dying because you missed your attack. In less than 3 minutes, I will explain how aiming works and how you can hit exactly the zombie you want to hit in a group. Making sure you never take a bite again due to game design, and only get killed because you made a stupid decision.
Original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciChJuFpTEA&t=7s

Example of 70 kills no multi-hit in about 6 minutes right after spawning in westpoint, just a hammer and the construction worker profession.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inNwpM8nbsE



P.S. If this video helped, leave a random comment to make sure this posts reaches as many people as possible.
Última edición por TeosDy_ToasT; 13 ENE 2022 a las 6:47 p. m.
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Mostrando 31-45 de 67 comentarios
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 10:37 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por LykosNychi:
Tip:
Don't aim AT the zombies. Aim PAST the zombies. If you get in the habit of tracking the zombies directly, you won't always be able to effectively react to them when they get really close.

You also run the genuinely deadly risk of accidentally spinning around when they get too close. You see, if you keep trying to track them directly, and accidentally predictively move your cursor too far, the cursor will cross your turning axis, and spin you away from the zombie, resulting in an effectively guaranteed grab, and likely bite.

I disagree with this 100%. At this point its a preference in how you play. In my 200+ hours, everything stated above hasn't been an issue with me. Never had an issue tracking zombies close and i have never spun around accidentally either by playing close, if that happens to players. I'm assuming it can be contributed to mouse speed. That's my only guess why you can click things close. The point of my video was how to understand the translation of your mouse to your combat stance. Nothing more.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 10:47 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por LykosNychi:
Tip:


It is objectively better. Whether or not you're able to play like that is different story, and you may find you react better with the cursor closer, even if that leaves a much tighter margin for error.

I think the word you mean is subjective.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 10:50 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por EnigmaGrey:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:

I have never accidentally moused over my characters back so that isnt an issue for me. I keep it close because I want to be certain I am defending myself against the zombie I wish. I get more mistakes by aiming beyond the zombie than at them. Once I started to aim at them, I haven't had any "mistakes" since. But if you play beyond, as long as you dont accidentally get damaged, then thats your playstyle. I'm glad it works. The point of the video is to actually point out how the cursor translates between stances. So those who "click" on zombies, will know where to click to make sure they are aiming correctly. Seen many videos of people walking up to zombies and when they get into combat stance, immediatly turn and get hit. I hope my video fixes THAT exact issue. Nothing more.

I do not understand what you mean by being more accurate by aiming further away. If im fighting someone I look at their core (IRL) not at the person standing behind them. Sure I can still hit the guy infront of me but it increases my chance of missing because im not looking directly at my target. So to me, by aiming beyond, you are less precise not more. Whats more precise than actually aiming at a zombie instead of beyond the zombie.

You’re not a third person isometric camera and you do not exist in a tile-based game (ie aim from your feet to their feet) in real life.

Holding the mouse past the zombie means you set a min and a max distance from your char for the cursor and keep it there.

It’s far more stable and has no risk of accidentally turning when the zombie is too close or screwing up the angle of attack. Trying to follow the zombie with the mouse pointer on it instead amplifies small changes in mouse position the closer the pointer gets to the char.

You are in no way aiming “at the guy behind the one in front of you.” No one is suggesting that.
I don't think you understood my reference about fighting and maybe thats why you said i'm not an isometric camera.. But that's ok. When you are fighting you look at your opponent. You don't look at the ref, you dont look at the crowd, you look at the man standing in front of you.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:13 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por EnigmaGrey:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
I don't think you understood my reference about fighting and maybe thats why you said i'm not an isometric camera.. But that's ok. When you are fighting you look at your opponent. You don't look at the ref, you dont look at the crowd, you look at the man standing in front of you.

And I’m trying to convey that what you do in real life isn’t applicable or simulated by the game.

The mouse pointer isn’t the character’s focus point for their eyes. You could put the pointer 6 inches from the target and still hit so long as you’re facing the zombie.

Yep, you are correct. If you are looking in the direction you will hit the one you are facing. Glad we cleared that up.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:25 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por EnigmaGrey:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:

Yep, you are correct. If you are looking in the direction you will hit the one you are facing. Glad we cleared that up.

Lol. Okay. Do the passive aggressive thing then.

I'm tired of people misunderstanding my post. And that is probably my fault by not stating my intentions more clearly. But I also think it is incredibly dumb to argue that aiming further away is better than aiming close. Neither is better, its your play style. I come from games where you have to be incredibly precise with where your cursor is. FPS games as well as RTS for micromanagement. If you have an army and you need to get 3 forces in different directions to target the same unit in a mob of soldiers, you have to learn to put your mouse exactly where you want so you ensure you are hitting that target. I play this game the same way. You came to argue how to play where Im only showing how the mouse translates from combat to non combat stance. That is all. So go to a different threat on HOW TO PLAY THIS GAME MY WAY. Instead of here where im showing how the game works. But more specifically the mouse.
40000Aggro 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:26 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
Publicado originalmente por PunishingVirtues:
Wow, that's so wild. I was having an issue something like missing a lot yesterday and this really helps. For future reference to anyone who reads this: I don't like or want unsolicited advice.
Glad this helped, once you understand how the targeting works. You can become a beast in combat.
I've noticed no actual difference.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:28 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por PunishingVirtues:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
Glad this helped, once you understand how the targeting works. You can become a beast in combat.
I've noticed no actual difference.
Then what is happening to you is not due to misunderstanding the mouse translation from non-combat to combat stance.
LykosNychi 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:47 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
Publicado originalmente por LykosNychi:
Tip:


It is objectively better. Whether or not you're able to play like that is different story, and you may find you react better with the cursor closer, even if that leaves a much tighter margin for error.

I think the word you mean is subjective.
No, Mr/Ms Passive Aggressive. I mean objectively.

aiming past the target in Zomboid is objectively better. It leaves a much wider margin of error, less likelihood of accidentally killing yourself with a turn, and also means you're not constantly focusing on only what's right in front of you.

You obviously can do it your way, and there's nothing wrong with having your own way of doing things. What works for you will work for you. But your described technique is still objectively worse than the one myself and Enigma (Isn't he literally a dev/CM?) are talking about.

Remember that "objectively better" doesn't mean other options aren't functional. It just means they're not up to par.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:50 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por LykosNychi:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:

I think the word you mean is subjective.
No, Mr/Ms Passive Aggressive. I mean objectively.

aiming past the target in Zomboid is objectively better. It leaves a much wider margin of error, less likelihood of accidentally killing yourself with a turn, and also means you're not constantly focusing on only what's right in front of you.

You obviously can do it your way, and there's nothing wrong with having your own way of doing things. What works for you will work for you. But your described technique is still objectively worse than the one myself and Enigma (Isn't he literally a dev/CM?) are talking about.

Remember that "objectively better" doesn't mean other options aren't functional. It just means they're not up to par.
Objective means factual, it's not factually better to be less precise. But you do you Mr/Ms wrong. Not my fault you spin when you are in combat. Learn to aim properly instead of using tape to fix the real issue.
Nebgama (Bloqueado) 15 ENE 2022 a las 11:57 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
I have seen a few posts about combat being weird and dying because you missed your attack. In less than 3 minutes, I will explain how aiming works and how you can hit exactly the zombie you want to hit in a group. Making sure you never take a bite again due to game design, and only get killed because you made a stupid decision.
Original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciChJuFpTEA&t=7s

Example of 70 kills no multi-hit in about 6 minutes right after spawning in westpoint, just a hammer and the construction worker profession.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inNwpM8nbsE

IMO there is to much thinking involved here to be rational in practice.

No one has time for that it becomes fatiguing trying to aim precisely like that lol there does not need to be that much thought into it. Just aim the iso cursor past the zombie you will hit every time and you do not need to consciously stand there and aim every time on a conscious level.

You can subconsciously know by visually seeing that the iso cursor is past the zombie you know its going to hit. It becomes second nature almost on autopilot.

If you have to spend that much thought on aim you will get caught in a trap and become tunnel vision of that aspect ...in turn it will get you killed because you were caught slipping.

in all reality we are talking about something that moves so if you aim on the zombie directly then you could easily miss your shot. Just aim behind because as long as they are on your trajectory while aiming behind and you move as they move you going to hit every time without having to reposition the iso cursor anywhere near as much..

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2720605039 over exagerated because its hard to press f12 while in combat. But this is still valid any zombie in range would be a hit still. You can aim as far as you want and as long any mob comes into range you are going to kill it every time. So much can go wrong aiming on top of the zombie. This method on the other hand is pretty much fail safe. Less to think about and you can visually know that you are going to hit with out having to think about it.

The only time i would purposely aim in melee would be on a ground zombie that i am trying to head shot.
Última edición por Nebgama; 15 ENE 2022 a las 12:19 p. m.
Nebgama (Bloqueado) 15 ENE 2022 a las 12:34 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Death:
Here you go. I also made a point to show that your shoes play more of a role in stomp damage than where your cursor is. For the record, I'm not arguing that using the cursor couldn't help the newbies until they actually get the hang of it. I'm only arguing that cursor placement isn't actually all that important (other than making sure you're facing the right direction) once you do understand position and angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETHBjS-ouJc

Yep which ties into what i am trying to relay aiming is not that important and should not be on the forefront when fighting. The biggest thing to watch is your surroundings if you are trying to line up several mobs each time in a precise manner then that is hampering your ability to read your surroundings.

After time you will find yourself concentrating more on aiming the mobs then you are reading your environment. Especially bad when gaming fatigue sets in or long play sessions.

Notice how Death is also aiming behind with the axe and also look at how many times they have to reposition it barley ever right? it stays the same spot basically. Each time they aim they only really aim once the rest is just directional movement.
Última edición por Nebgama; 15 ENE 2022 a las 12:47 p. m.
Nordil(Hun) 15 ENE 2022 a las 12:35 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
Publicado originalmente por LykosNychi:
No, Mr/Ms Passive Aggressive. I mean objectively.

aiming past the target in Zomboid is objectively better. It leaves a much wider margin of error, less likelihood of accidentally killing yourself with a turn, and also means you're not constantly focusing on only what's right in front of you.

You obviously can do it your way, and there's nothing wrong with having your own way of doing things. What works for you will work for you. But your described technique is still objectively worse than the one myself and Enigma (Isn't he literally a dev/CM?) are talking about.

Remember that "objectively better" doesn't mean other options aren't functional. It just means they're not up to par.
Objective means factual, it's not factually better to be less precise. But you do you Mr/Ms wrong. Not my fault you spin when you are in combat. Learn to aim properly instead of using tape to fix the real issue.

Nah he is right actually.
I tried to convery why it is so. But not sure my english or even my native language knowledge is good enough for this. I could totally explain with a damn paint picture....
It has to do with the lines/vectors. (Even though i understand the math behind it)
The closer you keep your cursor to your character, the more of these aiming vectors or lines are crowded in the same or nearly the same spot. The further you aim, these are noticeably easier to separate.
Just do a quarter circle. place in some lines in the circle from the middle towards the outer part of the circle, then extend them. (The more lines you draw within the circle part, the more crowded and harder to separate them it is, but if you extend them over the circle part, they will eventually separate noticeably, and the distance between the lines vectors will be bigger.)
Nebgama (Bloqueado) 15 ENE 2022 a las 1:05 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por EnigmaGrey:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:

I have never accidentally moused over my characters back so that isnt an issue for me. I keep it close because I want to be certain I am defending myself against the zombie I wish. I get more mistakes by aiming beyond the zombie than at them. Once I started to aim at them, I haven't had any "mistakes" since. But if you play beyond, as long as you dont accidentally get damaged, then thats your playstyle. I'm glad it works. The point of the video is to actually point out how the cursor translates between stances. So those who "click" on zombies, will know where to click to make sure they are aiming correctly. Seen many videos of people walking up to zombies and when they get into combat stance, immediatly turn and get hit. I hope my video fixes THAT exact issue. Nothing more.

I do not understand what you mean by being more accurate by aiming further away. If im fighting someone I look at their core (IRL) not at the person standing behind them. Sure I can still hit the guy infront of me but it increases my chance of missing because im not looking directly at my target. So to me, by aiming beyond, you are less precise not more. Whats more precise than actually aiming at a zombie instead of beyond the zombie.

You’re not a third person isometric camera and you do not exist in a tile-based game (ie aim from your feet to their feet) in real life.

Holding the mouse past the zombie means you set a min and a max distance from your char for the cursor and keep it there.

It’s far more stable and has no risk of accidentally turning when the zombie is too close or screwing up the angle of attack. Trying to follow the zombie with the mouse pointer on it instead amplifies small changes in mouse position the closer the pointer gets to the char.

You are in no way aiming “at the guy behind the one in front of you.” No one is suggesting that.


which makes sense this is why ppl pivot when the zombies is about to animate on them. Because they aim on the zombie. I know early b41 had issues with pivot that seem to be lees frequent or basically ironed out now but if its still happening then this is why stop aiming on the zombie.

Idk i have not seen pivoting issues lately but i also aim behind
Última edición por Nebgama; 15 ENE 2022 a las 1:08 p. m.
TeosDy_ToasT 15 ENE 2022 a las 1:39 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Dargsy:
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
While you can't kill them by stomping on their legs. If you stomp on their torso, you can kill them so no, you do not need to hit them in the head to kill them but you do need upper body at least. Hitting the head increases damage done. You can stomp on a head once and kill them first hit but you cannot when you stomp on their chest so aiming and how close you are to the head matters.
You can kill a zombie by stomping the legs. It just takes a very long time. It may be hard to believe, but this game is on an HP system. It just doesn't show you it. There's a bunch of mods that will show you damage numbers and then you can see it. Stomping on legs or even the ankles does very very little damage, but in doing so it will eventually hit 0 HP and kill the zombie.
So how long does it take then to kill a zombie by hitting their feet? More than 3 minutes? If you can show me exactly the amount of time, I will believe you but until then. You cannot and here is 3 minutes of just stomping on feet. Zombie still isnt dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39UBHgw9UVE
Nordil(Hun) 15 ENE 2022 a las 1:47 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TeosDy_ToasT:
Publicado originalmente por Dargsy:
You can kill a zombie by stomping the legs. It just takes a very long time. It may be hard to believe, but this game is on an HP system. It just doesn't show you it. There's a bunch of mods that will show you damage numbers and then you can see it. Stomping on legs or even the ankles does very very little damage, but in doing so it will eventually hit 0 HP and kill the zombie.
So how long does it take then to kill a zombie by hitting their feet? More than 3 minutes? If you can show me exactly the amount of time, I will believe you but until then. You cannot and here is 3 minutes of just stomping on feet. Zombie still isnt dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39UBHgw9UVE

Just install the mod that shows the HP. Then you will see it.
Or stomp the head of a zombie two times with str 3, and thereafter focus on the legs.(The zombie should need three head stomps usually with a level 3 str with less it is usally four).
Yes the zombie will die if you stomp their legs too...same with hands.
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Publicado el: 13 ENE 2022 a las 4:35 p. m.
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