Theorycrafting. Clumsy and Conspicuous? VS Lightfooted and Sneaking...

[WiseCog]

Does anyone have any knowledge about these two skills? How much effect would they have on a late game character that has high Lightfooted and Sneaking? And what exactly is the difference betweeen sneaking and Lightfooted skills? Does one affect sound and the other sight?

Can both clumsy and Conspicuous be countered late game with sneaking and lightfooted?

[rav]

Lightfooted - This is your general ability to move quietly.
This can be leveled by Sneaking, Walking or Running near zombies while undetected.

Nimble - The Nimble skill affects how fast you move while Sneaking (Build 40), decreases chance of tripping (Build 41)
and how much visibility you lose when aiming. It also increases the speed that you move at while in Combat Stance. [1]
This can be leveled by walking in Combat stance anywhere (Pressing C in IWBUMS B41), Sneaking (Build <40) and jumping over fences.

Sneaking - Your general ability to avoid detection and make less noise when Sneaking.
This can be leveled by Sneaking (holding CTRL or Z) near zombies while undetected

clumsy +60% Noise
Conspicuous +100% Chance of being spotted

so no it cant be fully countered

[WiseCog]

I am sorry but I still do not understand. I read the same thing from wiki. Can sound and sight both be balanced out? And if they can, can they be countered to an extent?
I know what you wrote probably explains it all, but either my english skills need to
improve or I can simply not understand it.
How much of a loss would it really be picking these skills if we are only talking about a late game character.

[rav]

clumsy = permanent 60% more noise, conspicious 100% moce chance of being spotted, doesnt matter how high your skills are

how much it actually affects late game with high skills i dont know but it will always be a lot worse than without

[WiseCog]

Originally posted by rav:

clumsy = permanent 60% more noise, conspicious 100% moce chance of being spotted, doesnt matter how high your skills are

how much it actually affects late game with high skills i dont know but it will always be a lot worse than without

I don't understand how much they can be countered or if they can be at all with higher skills. Are you saying someone with conspicious would be extremely visible even at full sneak and and ligtfooted? And the same with clumsy?
I guess I will have to test it out and see a little. I cant wait for players to dig into the files a bit more. Would be great to see some numbers.

[Sanctus]

Someone with full sneak and conspicuous will be twice as visible as someone with full sneak only.
Same story with clumsy but 60% instead of 100%.

[WiseCog]

Originally posted by Sanctus:

Someone with full sneak and conspicuous will be twice as visible as someone with full sneak only.
Same story with clumsy but 60% instead of 100%.

Oh it is really that much? That's a shame... I found one thread on reddit that said clumsy can be "balanced" out pretty well as long as you are in "c" mode late game. But the clumsy trait only give 2 extra points... Yea not so sure these picks are especially good even for late game then.

I like to play around with traits that basically at endgame removes the traits, even though its still there. I read cowardly does that in a way, but even here I have not seen any numbers or good "explanation" how much exactly.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Greenpakto:

Originally posted by Sanctus:

Someone with full sneak and conspicuous will be twice as visible as someone with full sneak only.
Same story with clumsy but 60% instead of 100%.

Oh it is really that much? That's a shame... I found one thread on reddit that said clumsy can be "balanced" out pretty well as long as you are in "c" mode late game. But the clumsy trait only give 2 extra points... Yea not so sure these picks are especially good even for late game then.

I like to play around with traits that basically at endgame removes the traits, even though its still there. I read cowardly does that in a way, but even here I have not seen any numbers or good "explanation" how much exactly.

There was a post earlier where if i recall well, if a zombie would look at you and you have maxed out skill with inconspicious then he will spot you from 22 tiles and below.
So if concpisiouc really raises that by 60% than on a regular 1080p screen you are noticed from past the screen already:)

[WiseCog]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by Greenpakto:

Oh it is really that much? That's a shame... I found one thread on reddit that said clumsy can be "balanced" out pretty well as long as you are in "c" mode late game. But the clumsy trait only give 2 extra points... Yea not so sure these picks are especially good even for late game then.

I like to play around with traits that basically at endgame removes the traits, even though its still there. I read cowardly does that in a way, but even here I have not seen any numbers or good "explanation" how much exactly.

There was a post earlier where if i recall well, if a zombie would look at you and you have maxed out skill with inconspicious then he will spot you from 22 tiles and below.
So if concpisiouc really raises that by 60% than on a regular 1080p screen you are noticed from past the screen already:)

Interesting. I will try to find this post. Conspicous will probably be a bad pick, but clumsy might not, as long as you sneak all the time.
--
My build right now looks like this (its purely for endgame, and is super weak at start):

Engineer:
Traits:
-
Unfit
Very Underweight
Weak
Thin-Skinned
Slow Learner
Pacifist
Weak Stomach
+
Speed Demon
Cat's Eyes
Dextrous
Fast Reader
Outdoorsman
Wakeful
Brave
Light Eater
Lucky
Nutritionist
Low Thirst
Organized
Handy

I could remove "nutritionist" as eventually my memory will know what everything is "valued" as, to gain another 4 points. Maybe trade that trait with inconspicious.
Adding "prone to illness" and "slow healer" is also an idea as those will allow me to keep nutritionist, but this is uncertain as I have read some really bad stuff from them.

[Sanctus]

Slow learner will make your fitness and strength level up more slowly as well I believe. You can survive with this character but it would be months of nothing but exercise for a long time if you wanted high strength and fitness.
Fast reader isn't useful enough to be worth the points in singleplayer and you would save more time by taking slow reader and getting rid of slow learner. It'll take a full day to read some books but you'll likely save weeks or months of xp grinding.

I always take slow healer and prone to illness, they are both a serious threat if you break a bone or get sick but smart decisions and avoiding risky moves makes them bearable.
For scratches and lacerations, slow healer is barely noticable, and it's easy to avoid sickness

[WiseCog]

Originally posted by Sanctus:

Slow learner will make your fitness and strength level up more slowly as well I believe. You can survive with this character but it would be months of nothing but exercise for a long time if you wanted high strength and fitness.
Fast reader isn't useful enough to be worth the points in singleplayer and you would save more time by taking slow reader and getting rid of slow learner. It'll take a full day to read some books but you'll likely save weeks or months of xp grinding.

I always take slow healer and prone to illness, they are both a serious threat if you break a bone or get sick but smart decisions and avoiding risky moves makes them bearable.
For scratches and lacerations, slow healer is barely noticable, and it's easy to avoid sickness

Yes indeed. I tried it and survived for two weeks on insane pop, then food became a problem. I am fine with the extremely slow grind, except for nimble maybe which seems to be the slowest of all. Its sort of a personal challenge for me and very rewarding when I live and gain experience.

The two worst problems I suffer with this build is low carry weight (start with 6) unless I find a good backpack early, and I can not jump high fences at all, which makes shaking of zombies and sneaking inside buildings without aggroing the zombies at the front very hard.

I was considering taking slow reader instead. Its not out of the equation, as the build is a testrun right now. Very nice to hear some input from slow healer and prone to illness as these are actually two skills I think about using as leverage. Which of these two if I had to choose one only would be the "least" dangerous?

[Sanctus]

Prone to illness is probably the least dangerous of the two if you feel you are prone to break bones or get deep wounds.

You can avoid sickness entirely by never eating rotten food, avoiding being soaking wet for long periods of time and avoiding zombie bites.

If you do get sick antibiotics are a powerful resource and they aren't too hard to get.

[WiseCog]

Originally posted by Sanctus:

Prone to illness is probably the least dangerous of the two if you feel you are prone to break bones or get deep wounds.

You can avoid sickness entirely by never eating rotten food, avoiding being soaking wet for long periods of time and avoiding zombie bites.

If you do get sick antibiotics are a powerful resource and they aren't too hard to get.

Interesting about the sickness, seems very avoidable then.
And yes, I can imagine that there will be moments where I have no other choice but to jump a window a story up or running through a broken window, but zombie bites are rather easy to avoid as long as you always have sprint ready.

You seem to have some knowledge here. Can I also ask which of the two positive traits would be best to pick then (if I went that route instead)? Fast Healer or resilient? I assume fast healer? This is in combination with thin-skinned btw.

[Sanctus]

Honestly I would take neither. Fast healer is essentially useless since injuries outside of broken limbs heal quickly anyways. You can also jump out of a second story window without breaking limbs (I think how much weight your carrying affects this) so the opportunities to use this trait would be very few indeed.

Resilient only matters if you get sick, and I have only gotten sick once in nearly 700 hours (except zombie infection) so I don't think I can say much about how much it actually helps.

If I had to pick one then probably fast healer since it is more useful to heal a broken leg faster than to resist a disease you can cure with antibiotics anyways.

[WiseCog]

Originally posted by Sanctus:

Honestly I would take neither. Fast healer is essentially useless since injuries outside of broken limbs heal quickly anyways. You can also jump out of a second story window without breaking limbs (I think how much weight your carrying affects this) so the opportunities to use this trait would be very few indeed.

Resilient only matters if you get sick, and I have only gotten sick once in nearly 700 hours (except zombie infection) so I don't think I can say much about how much it actually helps.

If I had to pick one then probably fast healer since it is more useful to heal a broken leg faster than to resist a disease you can cure with antibiotics anyways.

This was what I was thinking about those two traits, so feels good to get it backed up. I had no idea jumping out a window could avoid broken legs. I must have been very unlucky the times iv'e done it, or yea, had a lot of weight on me.

Is getting a disease a death sentence without antibiotics? I assumed you could heal it with rest and food as well, even with "Prone To Illness"?

[Sanctus]

You can but antibiotics are a good insurance policy.