Let's Talk Duct Tape ...

[Grizzbae]

So lets get a few things out of the way. I understand the scarcity, and that loot balance sometimes comes before realism. I understand that its uses in game and how much you consume isn't realistic, because it can drive players to make choices between the repairing that weapon to buy you 10 extra precious durability, or to craft that noise maker that might grant you access into that loot horde you're aching to get at. BUT

I feel like duct tape as it is currently in build 41.52 is getting in the way of itself in many respects. Sometimes putting limits on a resource's availability, can motivate players to avoid it entirely. Instead of the item being looked at as a resource that propels you into a new tier of crafting, its lost in a horde of other precious finds that are almost to rare and value to be used regularly or is used up so quickly the benefit is hardly noticeable making you reconsider leaving it behind next time.

For instance, you take that spear and elevate its damage by using your duct tape to mount a kitchen knife to the tip. Only to have some unlucky RNG and the kitchen knife to break on just a few pokes, and you're left with just a normal spear again, and a roll without enough condition left to make another, so you either need to seek out more or just crack on with a regular spear [which I suspect is what most players do]

Which leads me to my suggestions and talking points, because I'm not trying to sound like a squeaky tire and I'm just more interested in hearing people's thoughts and ideas. I have a few different ideas in mind for possibly expanding duct tapes versatility or roles.

One would be simply to reduce the condition lost whenever a roll is used. Extending the lifespan of a roll and its seen more as a tool in your kit than a consumable [even though it would still have a lifespan, just be it a longer one]

Second would be to increase the availability of the item [my least favorite] and/or including ultra-rare finds of duct tape packs. But in a game where inventory space is precious and most likely I see it leading to players sitting on dragon-hordes of the stuff I see it as detrimental.

Third would be to introduce a survivalist recipe [locked by behind perhaps a magazine or foraging lvl2 or so on]. In my head I'm calling it 'cordage' but by consuming twigs found during foraging you can make hand-made rope that can then substitute out or function the same as rope/duct-tape/etc

Or just let us affix chipped stones to spears with ripped sheets and be done with it. ><. Remember these are just thoughts. Filling time while I recuperate from losing my longest run and just trying to share thoughts and gain insight on where some other community members are at on the subject. I understand there are mods that address many of these points but that's not the purpose of the discussion. 10/10 game tbh, I love it for all of its ups and downs <3.

[Animalman]

The question to ask yourself how much duct tape of a whole fresh brand new roll will it take to properly secure a kitchen knife to a wooden pole.

I personally would just split the stick and force the knife between so it is held together by the stick. And then duct tape that around. Hafting.

[Grizzbae]

I imagine quite a bit to be fair, but looking at things from a crafting perspective. We have north of 12 different crafting recipes for affixing/removing various instruments to the tip of a wooden pole that just don't see much use because of just how frivolous of a use it is to do so.

I imagine early game most players instead make a stone knife [which has a much more streamlined recipe] and never go much further than that when it comes to spears. At least until they can get their hands on a supply of kitchen knives/hunting knives. By which case they use that to just make more regular spears.

[DivineEvil]

Well, Duct Tape is really only useful for making traps/grenades with timers/sensors and making the aforementioned improved spears. I don't really see much point in making a spear out of anything other than Hunting Knives, Icepicks and Machetes, so it doesn't really get into play until I either get enough skills to make the devices, or practice enough Maintenance and Spears using regular pointy sticks.

If someone feel like wasting Duct Tape on Kitchen Knife spear, thats their prerogative, but I wouldn't say Duct Tape is that rare to be a general problem that requires balance changes at this point.

[Grizzbae]

Do Icepicks have extended durability? The same way crowbars do? in all fairness I'm still learning the ins and outs of the game and usually favored long blunt, and only recently made the switch to sharpey sticks. Planning on starting a new run tonight so my plan is to apply what I've learned. I really do love the spear/short blade method. Just seems to me that we have alot of recipes specifically for how and what to improve spears out of, but the means don't really justify doing so

[Sick Boy]

So there's a mod out there that I love, it lets you affix the standard pointy object to a spear with leather strips you would get from cutting up leather jackets. (It also enables twine to affix the pointy bits too, but twine is more important for trap making and fishing rod repair)

I know mods aren't the answer everyone would like, but I love it.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2036922754&searchtext=leather+strips

[Animalman]

I have never crafted a spear. All that additional range will confuse me id be a noob with it.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Animalman:

I have never crafted a spear. All that additional range will confuse me id be a noob with it.

Not even sure why you would not just tie it there with a strap of cloth or wet cloth.

[Animalman]

You could have used the fibers of a stick, stripped. But thats some real cave man stuff.

In a IRL zombie apocalypse i doubt you'd see many spears or stone axes, the quantity available in the towns and residentials are so plentiful i could only see craft of spear be useful to farm skill xp. Like a hobby. But maybe am wrong, its probably the lightest and most effective weapon.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Animalman:

You could have used the fibers of a stick, stripped. But thats some real cave man stuff.

In a IRL zombie apocalypse i doubt you'd see many spears or stone axes, the quantity available in the towns and residentials are so plentiful i could only see craft of spear be useful to farm skill xp. Like a hobby. But maybe am wrong, its probably the lightest and most effective weapon.

Get some bricks/stones/concrete blocks watever. Tie a rope around it. Drop it from the third floor/roof of house on a zombies head. Pull back. Rince and repeat...

[Animalman]

Ah you mean the ball and chain.

Good weapon of choice.

I'd class it as a long blunt.

[Grizzbae]

Word yea so some of you saw through my words and got to what I was getting at principally is about spears. Way I see it they're really the top-class weapon in this game, and could be improved upon with some tweaks to duct tape or adding more variety of ways to affix weapons to them.

To be honest as a whole I think weapons need to be given the spear treatment, and provide players hand-crafted variants of all weapon types that can be reliably used. Shillelaghs in long and short blunt varieties, an improved/deadlier version of the stone knife, some sort of scrapmetal axe locked behind metalworking, etc etc etc.

and @animalman craft a set of spears especially after maintenance lvl 1 or 2 and you'll know what I'm talkin about, the things just mulch zeds especially on multi-hit difficulties.