Slow Reader, an example of flawed design?

[Quikel]

A few days ago I started playing PZ again and while I was trying out some mods and check on the little additions on IWBUMS I met the bane of my existance again. Aside from playing around with metalworking and some new traits (smoker), i also picked up "Slow Healing" and "Slow reading". While I already knew that slow healing is the absolute worst trait you can possible have when you fracture a bone, i was hoping for some adjustments to it in the past months. Unfortunately that did not happen.

Same goes for slow reader.

While I am writing this thread, my character is still reading Carpentry for Beginners and I ate lunch, watched a youtube video and made a phone call. Iam basically sitting ingame, for more than 20 minutes, reading a book. To be honest, I really really hate this and I dont think that these time sinks should be in the game. I mean I dont mind waiting 25 days for my potatoes to grow, cause i can still do something in the meantime and hobbling around with a broken leg for 7-8 weeks is nightmare on earth but at least i >could< still do something in this time. But reading a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ book for 20-30min straight, not being able to move or do anything else? No thanks. Being illiterate might even become attractive (for lower levels), given the time i just waste by standing next to the bookshelf.

Iam pretty sure that by sawing planks for 20min straight would get me to lv 2 without having to invest the time in reading these books, but that still remains to be proven.

Anyhow: If any of you devs read this - please be so kind and oversee some of the traits. Some of them are absolutely atrocious and boresome. I have yet to play a game that forces me to stay in place for 20-30min without being able to do anything.

Ah, just finished this thread in time. Time to read Cooking for beginners!

Edit: Added the following part, just in order to clarify my initial point:

Originally posted by The Emperors Finest:

I was just discussing this trait with a few friends and we came to the conclusion that its not just this trait in itself but acutally the whole process of reading which we do think is flawed. Whenever you read, you are frozen and it doesnt really matter if you split it in five sessions in which you read 50 pages each or one session in which you read 250 - by the end of the day you have always wasted X minutes of your time by staring at the screen, doing literally nothing.

Maybe I didnt make this point very clear in the initial post, which is a mistake on my end.

At any rate it would be nice to have more input from a few more members of this community.

Edit 2: Edited the title, since people only read that and got hung up on things that are actually irrelevant to the discussion.

[Sick Boy]

Well, I don't have a solution for slow-healing. It's definitely a handicap. But... I mean, if you don't want it, why take it? For points? I'm sure you can do without those points.

As for Slow-Reader, you can just fast forward time if you're playing single player.


All in all you're frustrated becuase the handicaps you chose are handicapping you. There's an extremely easy solution to that.

Also, if you're using mods and you just want points, there is a mod out there that adds like 20 free creation points. You could just use that. It's called "Starting Points++".

[Quikel]

While I surely was frustrated by these traits I still think that these arent necessarily well designed. I mean both of you just told me that the best way to deal with this trait is not picking it. What is the point of it then? If something is so fundamentaly flawed (at least in vanilla MP) that nobody would ever want to take it, then shouldnt it eventually be revised?

Sure, i could speed up the process by fast forwarding but what is the drawback of slow reader then? I simply hit x3 in Singleplayer and suddenly the negative trait evaporated. In Multiplayer it is even worse, cause there i >have< to stand still for x, doing absolutely nothing.

And since ranting is easy, i would like to make a suggestion:
Wouldnt it be a possible option to combine reading with another activity? Like, when you are exhausted and/or unhappy you could grab a book,put yourself in a chair and read. I wouldnt mind if the time fast forwards then, cause that would be more in line with the actual time spent reading than standing next to a bookshelf for 3 (or more?) ingame hours is.

Surely this would impact the effect of the other non-skill related books. Maybe they could provide some sort of buff, like good mood or whatever. Basically speeding up item transfer speeds and what not. I mean there are surely hundreds of ways to improve the current system, even though I am aware that these things arent a top priority.

[Sick Boy]

Actually, my solution to them FRUSTRATING you was to not take them. The solution to dealing with them is to "just deal with them" as you would any other drawback.

How do you deal with "Clumsy"? You just do. How do you deal with "inconspicuous"? You just do.

I take slow-healer almost every single time. My solution to THAT? Don't get hurt.

I agree with you that there should most definitely be an option to sit and read. But the drawback to fast-forwarding time is you lose out on time you could use looting or clearing zombies or building defenses. You also risk a high-speed break-in from the zombies if you aren't careful.

[Quikel]

The difference is though: Clumsy, Incospicious and others still allow me to actually play the game. I can move, i can sneak,i can chop wood, i can do something. Slow reader keeps me from doing any of that. It forces the player into passiveness for prolongued periods of time and this is fundamently different from other traits. You can not deal with it other than by waiting (wasting time).

Therefore would strongly suggest to add more positve buffs to the game that would allow more wiggle room for being able to deal certain traits. Being able to read while relaxing, magazines and comics providing certain buffs like "Good mood" (faster transfer speed?) or "Inspired" (less panic?) and the same even for food when eating a nice stew for example that provides something like a "Warmth" buff when its cold outside or a "Healing" buff of some sort when drinking herbal tea that helps with fighting fever.

(And i am derailing my own thread now!)

[Sick Boy]

Reading, period, stops you from "playing" the game. It's just HOW LONG it stops you from playing that's affected by the trait. Other traits stop you from achieving things in the game.

Clumsy and Conspicuous(what I actually meant, I got the two mixed up, and what I presume you also meant when referring to my "inconspicuous"), don't prevent you from activating sneak mode, but they sure do prevent you from succeeding at sneaking.

I don't disagree that they could be modified to be less impactful, but I feel that would dimish their drawback points as well. Then what is the point? Diminishing their effect will diminish their "value" which will in turn make them less "useful" in terms of point gaining.

Taking a "slow reader" character would imply you don't plan on doing much reading. Some, maybe, but you don't even need to finish a skill book to get SOME skill bonus out of it. If you finish 40 pages of a 300 page book, check your skill modifier. It won't be fully buffed but you will get a percentage of a multiplier.

Ultimately if you want to spend time reading, don't take the slow reader trait, or be prepared to wait a lot.

[Quikel]

I am sorry when I repeat myself here to some extend but my point was that even though it is harder to sneak and get around packs of zombies, it is still technically possible. I, as a player, am still in control over my avatar. I can decide whether i go over here, over there or do whatever with my time.

When I am reading a book for X-minutes i am not. The game puts me in lockdown for a given amount of time. My only way to circumvent it is by ignoring the book (which isnt a good idea if you plan on getting your ability to lv 10 anytime soon) or sit still and wait - doing absolutely nothing. I dont know any other video game that does that to you.

Its also the sort of time I have to spent reading the book. I wouldnt even mind reading a book for like 7 ingame days, cause thats what it usually takes me (as a person) to read a book.Sitting here in real life for 20+ minutes, staring at the screen is something entirely different. But to make this possible the whole way of "how you read a book" would need to be adjusted. As it currently is, i do still think it is outright painful and broken and an example of flawed design choices.

And I didnt even bring up the whole "and it only gives 2 points" thing or the place that "illiterate" has in this game ;D

[Sick Boy]

Reading at all will lock you down.

I don't know if you know this, but you do keep your place when reading a skill book. In your inventory, if you highlight a book that you only partially completed reading, it will say like "89/200 Pages Read". Meaning you can pick it back up and not have lost your place or any time spent reading that book. You *COULD* take 7 days to finish a book if you like. Picking it up and reading for an hour or two before you're just about to go to bed would work. After the day's "chores" are done.

I don't actually remember how many points slow reader gives you, but if it really is only 2 and it bugs you that much, honestly.... Don't take it. I know I've said it a dozen times already but that really is the simplest solution. That option is there for someone who only wants to get a small multiplier to their skill boost instead of the full amount. If you plan on reading all the skill books you can and power leveling a skill to 10, then handicapping yourself doesn't seem like that good of a move.

And if it is for "role playing" purposes, well then... Guess what? You're a slow-reader, pal.

[Quikel]

I was just discussing this trait with a few friends and we came to the conclusion that its not just this trait in itself but acutally the whole process of reading which we do think is flawed. Whenever you read, you are frozen and it doesnt really matter if you split it in five sessions in which you read 50 pages each or one session in which you read 250 - by the end of the day you have always wasted X minutes of your time by staring at the screen, doing literally nothing.

Maybe I didnt make this point very clear in the initial post, which is a mistake on my end.

At any rate it would be nice to have more input from a few more members of this community.

[Quikel]

Originally posted by EnigmaGrey:

. . . The game's set in a real-world location and otherwise is hamstrung by its chosen genre to depict real world activities somewhat accurately.

That means struggling to read a book is slowly reading a book. Because the game lets you control only one character, that means you'll be watching your character read that book.

There's . . . like no way around this. Tell you what, start a server and set the pagesReadPerMinute variable in servertest.ini to 1000 or something. There you go.

No more reading.

I mean i just made a suggestion on how to change it without forcing the player to stare at the screen. Iam sure if someone would put some more thought to it there would be way more elegant ways to implement reading and its consumption of time without it turning into a boredom.

[Quikel]

Originally posted by The Emperors Finest:

And since ranting is easy, i would like to make a suggestion:
Wouldnt it be a possible option to combine reading with another activity? Like, when you are exhausted and/or unhappy you could grab a book,put yourself in a chair and read. I wouldnt mind if the time fast forwards then, cause that would be more in line with the actual time spent reading than standing next to a bookshelf for 3 (or more?) ingame hours is.

This part.

[nasKo]

Originally posted by The Emperors Finest:

Originally posted by The Emperors Finest:

And since ranting is easy, i would like to make a suggestion:
Wouldnt it be a possible option to combine reading with another activity? Like, when you are exhausted and/or unhappy you could grab a book,put yourself in a chair and read. I wouldnt mind if the time fast forwards then, cause that would be more in line with the actual time spent reading than standing next to a bookshelf for 3 (or more?) ingame hours is.

This part.

Good one.

We'll look into rebalancing traits in the future. Automatically fast forwarding when reading might be a nice idea and being able to sit down in a chair while doing it would also be neat.
Certainly something to be considered :)

[Quikel]

Well, i thought of it like this:

Lets assume your character is exhausted from chopping trees or whatever and needs to rest but you also have this book about foraging that you would want to read eventually. Therefore you grab a book and sit down on your couch. Time begins fast forwarding ( like when you sleep) and eventually four (or whatever amount) of ingame hours passed and you are rested and read a good chunk of your book without wasting 10minutes staring at the screen.

You could even combine it when sleeping, like providing an option to read before sleeping, given you have a book in your inventory at the time - maybe even providing a buff to the quality of your sleep (I just make these up on the spot, so take them with a grain of salt).

Sure, this would definitely impact the purpose of non-skill related books such as magazines and similar types but instead of only having the purpose of "not making you unhappy anymore" they could actually provide positive buffs such as i described here, making them even more meaningful:

Originally posted by The Emperors Finest:

Therefore I would strongly suggest to add more positve buffs to the game that would allow more wiggle room for being able to deal with certain traits. Being able to read while relaxing, magazines and comics providing certain buffs like "Good mood" (faster transfer speed?) or "Inspired" (less panic?) and the same even for food when eating a nice stew for example that provides something like a "Warmth" buff for when its cold outside or a "Healing" buff of some sort when drinking herbal tea that helps with fighting fever.

[nasKo]

Yep, that sounds like a good thing to have!

[Neon_Wolf1]

What about having audio books in the game?

The Devs have already said that cassettes will be added.

So just get a Walkman and headphones, and your all set. Work and read.

But because you are doing two things at once it should take longer to level up.

[Our Savior]

Don't take the traits then.