Remove revive tokens in Normal raids?

[Nomeat710]

I understand the point of raid tokens but now that we have master raids isnt it time to let normal raids be for casuals and people who dont want to do master raids...keep it in all other content but take it out of normal raids to just make them less of a headache to one learn mechanics because new people will die while learning some mechanics. Two most of the time in sherpa runs people leave due to wipes from just too many deaths understandable but if you take away the tokens gives people more of a chance to succeed in encounters while master can still have the everyone gets one death

[Skyward]

Originally posted by Nomeat710:

I understand the point of raid tokens but now that we have master raids isnt it time to let normal raids be for casuals and people who dont want to do master raids...keep it in all other content but take it out of normal raids to just make them less of a headache to one learn mechanics because new people will die while learning some mechanics. Two most of the time in sherpa runs people leave due to wipes from just too many deaths understandable but if you take away the tokens gives people more of a chance to succeed in encounters while master can still have the everyone gets one death

I agree with you 100%.

[Horn]

What's next, remove mechanics from normal raids? Revive tokens are made to ensure that players don't skip mechanics by simply dying and resurrecting infinite number of times.

[Skyward]

Originally posted by Horn:

What's next, remove mechanics from normal raids? Revive tokens are made to ensure that players don't skip mechanics by simply dying and resurrecting infinite number of times.

If you skip mechanics you'll be stuck on that part indefinitely, I fail to see your logic.

[Eriana]

Originally posted by Skyward:

Originally posted by Horn:

What's next, remove mechanics from normal raids? Revive tokens are made to ensure that players don't skip mechanics by simply dying and resurrecting infinite number of times.

If you skip mechanics you'll be stuck on that part indefinitely, I fail to see your logic.

There are literally several mechanics in raids than can be circumvented by the players dying and being revived.

[Nomeat710]

Originally posted by Vivi:

Originally posted by Skyward:

If you skip mechanics you'll be stuck on that part indefinitely, I fail to see your logic.

There are literally several mechanics in raids than can be circumvented by the players dying and being revived.

Name these mechanics....only mechanics i can think of is just manipulating a buff to a single person. Crota's end just some one can pick up chalace again, Kali in last wish one person needs to go into the room to survive, oryx needs atleast 4 people, almost every old raid is only used to grind out spoils other than that just red boarders.....every encounter is easy just the tokens make it way too punishing in the learning stage

[Horn]

Originally posted by Nomeat710:

Originally posted by Vivi:

There are literally several mechanics in raids than can be circumvented by the players dying and being revived.

Name these mechanics....only mechanics i can think of is just manipulating a buff to a single person. Crota's end just some one can pick up chalace again, Kali in last wish one person needs to go into the room to survive, oryx needs atleast 4 people, almost every old raid is only used to grind out spoils other than that just red boarders.....every encounter is easy just the tokens make it way too punishing in the learning stage

Of recent, I can think of the 4th encounter from the new raid. Don't know what to do in a solo room? Just shoot a rocket at your feet and you'll be replaced by another player. In GoS, it would be possible for the same player to pick up a white spit-thing of a harpy boss or not learning how to properly shoot it in the eyes. Last Wish on Riven encounter has similar mechanics. I think you get what i mean.

[Eriana]

Originally posted by Nomeat710:

Originally posted by Vivi:

There are literally several mechanics in raids than can be circumvented by the players dying and being revived.

Name these mechanics....only mechanics i can think of is just manipulating a buff to a single person. Crota's end just some one can pick up chalace again, Kali in last wish one person needs to go into the room to survive, oryx needs atleast 4 people, almost every old raid is only used to grind out spoils other than that just red boarders.....every encounter is easy just the tokens make it way too punishing in the learning stage

The Wipe Timer in each of the encounters in Salvations edge can be skipped over by use of a Self Revive glitch, and once skipped the timer doesn't reset allowing for players to do encounters as long as they want, this has potential to be replicated if we have infinite revives in a raid.

Deep Stone Crypt has the "Deactivated Augment" Debuff which prevents players from using their current augment/picking up any other augment, meaning another player has to pick up the buff and use it. This can be circumvented by just having the players die over and over to get their augment back.

Garden of Salvations 1st and 3rd encounters would be made trivial because you could assign one person to pick up every Voltaic Overflow and let them die on repeat so multiple people wouldn't need to pick it up and wait for their debuff to go away.

Last wishes Kalli would be made even more trivial than she already is because you could have everyone stay outside of the safe rooms during damage then have 1 person leave damage to go into a safe room and revive everyone else after the wipe mechanic goes off.
Morgeth could actually become harder depending on if Taken Strengths respawn after someone dies with them, because if the Taken Strengths stay up for too long Morgeth gets stronger, resulting in a potential wipe.
Riven could also become harder, as you could spend more time time dying repeatedly to her mechanics, resulting in a wipe.

Kings Fall could end up confusing teams, because when someone dies with the 'Torn Between Dimensions' buff, it gets transferred to another player.

The entirety of Crota's end would be Trivialized because you could die repeatedly to get rid of the Drained of Light debuff.

Vault of Glasses Oracles and Templar would be made trivial as when you stand in the Fanatic Vex death pool it gives you the "Marked for Negation" debuff, which could be completely ignored. This debuff is also gained by doing Templar and Oracles incorrectly.

[.Inceneration!]

Originally posted by Nomeat710:

Originally posted by Vivi:

There are literally several mechanics in raids than can be circumvented by the players dying and being revived.

Name these mechanics....only mechanics i can think of is just manipulating a buff to a single person. Crota's end just some one can pick up chalace again, Kali in last wish one person needs to go into the room to survive, oryx needs atleast 4 people, almost every old raid is only used to grind out spoils other than that just red boarders.....every encounter is easy just the tokens make it way too punishing in the learning stage

"oryx needs atleast 4 people"
Funny xD its been duo'ed. Oryx requires 3 people at most to make it possible to 3 phase with bad dps. If you need 4 that means you are slacking hard and have no idea what you are doing xD Oryx only requires people to stand in bombs. You dont need to stand in all of them they only increase the dps window you got.

"every encounter is easy just the tokens make it way too punishing in the learning stage"
If every encounter is easy. Why are you crying about revive tokens then? Learning curve is perfect. it filters out the lazy people so the rest of us who actually knows what to do and is teaching others can filter them out and make sure they never get a raid completion without working for it! Raiding is a group effort. Not a 5 people Strike.

[the.sightless.jayfeather]

I can understand the frustration as someone who is very new to raiding still (barely done a single raid to completion and attempted two since) but I dunno if fully removing the tokens from them is a good idea. Maybe giving some more tokens would work but as they stand currently, it'd probably break a good number of encounters.

Personally, I wouldn't object to them removing the tokens from normal raids but only if they tweaked the normal raids to compensate. People here have mentioned a number of encounters that use debuffs that can be reset if you just die, why not make those stick around instead? if you didn't want to mess with it much then you could simply give an extra token to people so it's more of a three strike system. At least, I think that'd be more balanced anyway.

It is always worth remembering that raids *are* endgame activities. As cool as some raid gear can be, it really is just meant to be an icing on the cake thing. I do hope the fireteam finder gets more people like me into doing raids - people just here for a fun time trying the hard content, difficult as it is doing puzzles in public matchmaking

[Jagdtiger]

I agree, let's remove revive tokens from normal raids so nobody can be revived at all. Let's add extinguish while we're at it

[TheVoidSpirit]

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

I agree, let's remove revive tokens from normal raids so nobody can be revived at all. Let's add extinguish while we're at it

Monkey's Paw, I see.

[Youraye]

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

I agree, let's remove revive tokens from normal raids so nobody can be revived at all. Let's add extinguish while we're at it

its already in the game, its called petra's run

[Skyward]

Originally posted by Vivi:

Originally posted by Skyward:

If you skip mechanics you'll be stuck on that part indefinitely, I fail to see your logic.

There are literally several mechanics in raids than can be circumvented by the players dying and being revived.

That sounds like a game mechanic issue, not a player issue. Sadly, some people will use exploits and cheese encounters, but that shouldn't stop good design if it's fixed properly.

[Nomeat710]

Originally posted by N/A:

They should add forced matchmaking to raids too that way people can't gate keep and all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ people either group up with their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ friends or leave so that the community as a whole becomes less toxic.

They shouldnt for raids already see what happens with wow with LFR....most toxic MM thing on a MMO....its fine to die but have the worry to need to pick up your buddy to prevent the wipe or get wiped anyway since you might not have the DPS.

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

I agree, let's remove revive tokens from normal raids so nobody can be revived at all. Let's add extinguish while we're at it

Not saying that just go back to how D1 was with raids where you can die as many times but it just makes it a pain sometimes to try and pick them back up and especially with SE a death can really screw over the whole team and not just because of tokens.