Bringing back old content?

[NizzBizz]

I would really love to play through the red war or experience what curse of Osiris and Warmind added. I mean they don't need to bring back Titan or Io in its entirety, but maybe just have the zones for the campaigns. Sure that's probably like 100gigs of content, but why don't they do what COD or Halo collection does and just swap around what you have installed.

[DakotaThrice]

Destinations, activities and characters from vaulted content will likely continue to rotate on and out but there's practically zero chance of the campaigns returning at this point. The best we'll get is extra missions added to Timeline Reflections.

[HugoTaHell]

Originally posted by NizzBizz:

I would really love to play through the red war or experience what curse of Osiris and Warmind added. I mean they don't need to bring back Titan or Io in its entirety, but maybe just have the zones for the campaigns. Sure that's probably like 100gigs of content, but why don't they do what COD or Halo collection does and just swap around what you have installed.

Because unlike those other games, Destiny has everything included in it, that's why the game is so damn big and chunks of it had to be removed to keep the game under 200gb. DLC in destiny means "dual licensed content" DLC in this game is not like other games where it is content added on, but rather content that needs a second license to access.

[Doctor Proteus]

Red War won't come back because it is antithetical to how Bungie wants the game to feel for new Players. They want Players to just instantly have access to the tower and community, but the Red War was made specifically for Players of the original Destiny and tells a story just for them, where they have to fight their way back to the First City and reclaim their light.

A modified version of Curse of Osiris could come back I think, just make it a regular zone like the EDZ and Cosmodrome, and it'd be a good way to introduce new players to the Infinite Forest and Black Garden and such, something which they just namedrop throughout the game and expect new Players to know what that means. They could put Osiris or his temporal/simulant doubles there as its overseers like how the EDZ/Cosmodrome/etc... have certain characters watching over them and handing out Bounties, quests, etc...

They should do the same with the the Rise of Iron stuff and bring back Siva to help spice up the Enemy diversity too.

[redk]

Originally posted by Doctor Proteus:

Red War won't come back because it is antithetical to how Bungie wants the game to feel for new Players. They want Players to just instantly have access to the tower and community, but the Red War was made specifically for Players of the original Destiny and tells a story just for them, where they have to fight their way back to the First City and reclaim their light.

Red War wasn't just for players of D1.

Everyone on PC got introduced to D2 with Red War. And it was epic. Much better than the snooze fest Cosmodrome. No better way to start a story than a firefight where you get your teeth kicked in so you're motivated to come back bigger, better, meaner.

And it should come back, in the timeline. Replay the 4 key missions.

[trukr]

Originally posted by redk:

Originally posted by Doctor Proteus:

Red War won't come back because it is antithetical to how Bungie wants the game to feel for new Players. They want Players to just instantly have access to the tower and community, but the Red War was made specifically for Players of the original Destiny and tells a story just for them, where they have to fight their way back to the First City and reclaim their light.

Red War wasn't just for players of D1.

Everyone on PC got introduced to D2 with Red War. And it was epic. Much better than the snooze fest Cosmodrome. No better way to start a story than a firefight where you get your teeth kicked in so you're motivated to come back bigger, better, meaner.

And it should come back, in the timeline. Replay the 4 key missions.

To each their own, to me Red War was the snooze fest. The start to me was stupid, there you are in your jump ship, with not a single weapon, you land, you find a gun, you fight. You end up on the ship, that is a bit above the wall, that is far above the tops of skyscraper buildings, your ghost goes dark and falls to the deck, is kicked off the side just a bit before you get kicked off the side. Now, somehow, without the light, the fall not only doesn't kill you, but you also actually get up and walk away. Then, somehow your ghost is lit and hovers over to you and informs you he cannot help you. Then you start the long boring trudge out of the city and across the landscape.

Red War had it's moments, Forsaken saved the game, and even it's campaign had a big start and ending with meh middle with some good points scattered about.

New Light is in response to the complaints all the way back there and along the way, about new players not being shown how to do things, it has the things people asked for. Did Bungie knock it out of the park, no they didn't, but it does teach new players how to do things. Also now, once you get to an early part, you can skip it. Personally, I think a prompt at the start to select to do the tutorial or skip it would be best.

Edit: Thanks for the Steam points, I will use them someday, really, I will, or maybe not. Thanks anyway, it's the thought that counts.

[Sl33py D33r]

it was certainly better than shadowkeep at least, that expansion was worse than warmind to me.

[TneX]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by redk:

Red War wasn't just for players of D1.

Everyone on PC got introduced to D2 with Red War. And it was epic. Much better than the snooze fest Cosmodrome. No better way to start a story than a firefight where you get your teeth kicked in so you're motivated to come back bigger, better, meaner.

And it should come back, in the timeline. Replay the 4 key missions.

To each their own, to me Red War was the snooze fest. The start to me was stupid, there you are in your jump ship, with not a single weapon, you land, you find a gun, you fight. You end up on the ship, that is a bit above the wall, that is far above the tops of skyscraper buildings, your ghost goes dark and falls to the deck, is kicked off the side just a bit before you get kicked off the side. Now, somehow, without the light, the fall not only doesn't kill you, but you also actually get up and walk away. Then, somehow your ghost is lit and hovers over to you and informs you he cannot help you. Then you start the long boring trudge out of the city and across the landscape.

Red War had it's moments, Forsaken saved the game, and even it's campaign had a big start and ending with meh middle with some good points scattered about.

New Light is in response to the complaints all the way back there and along the way, about new players not being shown how to do things, it has the things people asked for. Did Bungie knock it out of the park, no they didn't, but it does teach new players how to do things. Also now, once you get to an early part, you can skip it. Personally, I think a prompt at the start to select to do the tutorial or skip it would be best.

Didn't "teach new players how to do things"? What? I was a new player and I started with Red War, hadn't played Destiny 1, and I wasn't confused at any point in how to do things.

If anything, I keep seeing new players being confused NOW about what to do after they are done with the Cosmodrome, because the narrative makes absolutely no sense to them and I can't blame them. Sometimes even during, because the game likes to drop them into season opening quests without their consent with no explanation.

[redk]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by redk:

Red War wasn't just for players of D1.

Everyone on PC got introduced to D2 with Red War. And it was epic. Much better than the snooze fest Cosmodrome. No better way to start a story than a firefight where you get your teeth kicked in so you're motivated to come back bigger, better, meaner.

And it should come back, in the timeline. Replay the 4 key missions.

To each their own, to me Red War was the snooze fest. The start to me was stupid, there you are in your jump ship, with not a single weapon, you land, you find a gun, you fight. You end up on the ship, that is a bit above the wall, that is far above the tops of skyscraper buildings, your ghost goes dark and falls to the deck, is kicked off the side just a bit before you get kicked off the side. Now, somehow, without the light, the fall not only doesn't kill you, but you also actually get up and walk away. Then, somehow your ghost is lit and hovers over to you and informs you he cannot help you. Then you start the long boring trudge out of the city and across the landscape.

How does it not make sense to you ? Ghaul literally uses a device to neutralize the traveler which is why your ghost becomes impaired.

It makes 100% sense, and throws the stakes to 11 instantly. I dare argue if you think it didn't make sense, you didn't pay attention to the dialogue or the cutscenes at all.

Originally posted by trukr:

New Light is in response to the complaints all the way back there and along the way, about new players not being shown how to do things, it has the things people asked for. Did Bungie knock it out of the park, no they didn't, but it does teach new players how to do things. Also now, once you get to an early part, you can skip it. Personally, I think a prompt at the start to select to do the tutorial or skip it would be best.

This is ridiculous. Having actually played D2 on launch, you did get showed how to do things. "Regaining your light" literally walks you into using ability by ability as you regain them. It's the ultimate "start fresh" tutorial where things unlock and teach you to use them one by one, without being a dumb tutorial with a narrator explaining things.

[trukr]

Originally posted by TneX:

Didn't "teach new players how to do things"? What? I was a new player and I started with Red War, hadn't played Destiny 1, and I wasn't confused at any point in how to do things.

If anything, I keep seeing new players being confused NOW about what to do after they are done with the Cosmodrome, because the narrative makes absolutely no sense to them and I can't blame them. Sometimes even during, because the game likes to drop them into season opening quests without their consent with no explanation.

Oh please, now it has popups saying press this or that to do this or that, it shows everything. I was on Titan before I knew what a super was. It was a common complaint that for new players it was as clear as mud.

[trukr]

Originally posted by redk:

How does it not make sense to you ? Ghaul literally uses a device to neutralize the traveler which is why your ghost becomes impaired.

It makes 100% sense, and throws the stakes to 11 instantly. I dare argue if you think it didn't make sense, you didn't pay attention to the dialogue or the cutscenes at all.

Because, if you fell off of one of those building you were looking down at without your light, that would be your final death. Do you not get it, if you have no light and ghost can't help, you should have had your final death.

Originally posted by redk:

This is ridiculous. Having actually played D2 on launch, you did get showed how to do things. "Regaining your light" literally walks you into using ability by ability as you regain them. It's the ultimate "start fresh" tutorial where things unlock and teach you to use them one by one, without being a dumb tutorial with a narrator explaining things.

Right, the forums had a good many post about how it sucked, why do you think Bungie changed it, because everyone loved it as it was? Put your rose tinted rearview away.

It's funny how the stuff people complain about being meh becomes the greatest thing when it's removed.

[TneX]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by TneX:

Didn't "teach new players how to do things"? What? I was a new player and I started with Red War, hadn't played Destiny 1, and I wasn't confused at any point in how to do things.

If anything, I keep seeing new players being confused NOW about what to do after they are done with the Cosmodrome, because the narrative makes absolutely no sense to them and I can't blame them. Sometimes even during, because the game likes to drop them into season opening quests without their consent with no explanation.

Oh please, now it has popups saying press this or that to do this or that, it shows everything. I was on Titan before I knew what a super was. It was a common complaint that for new players it was as clear as mud.

lmao
I'm sorry, but there is no way that is true. The game had you do a super as part of the process of regaining your light.

[redk]

Originally posted by trukr:

Because, if you fell off of one of those building you were looking down at without your light, that would be your final death. Do you not get it, if you have no light and ghost can't help, you should have had your final death.

You're wearing a space suit with triple jump and glide capabilities.

That's not your light making you hover as a titan, you even hear the jet sound effect.

Originally posted by trukr:

Right, the forums had a good many post about how it sucked, why do you think Bungie changed it, because everyone loved it as it was? Put your rose tinted rearview away.

It's funny how the stuff people complain about being meh becomes the greatest thing when it's removed.

The only "meh" parts of the campaign in Red War people were complaining about were the middle segments where "you get the team back together". The first missions until you get your light back from the Shard of the traveler, and the last 2 missions where you stop the Cabal from blowing up the Sun and you defeat Ghaul were all lauded. Saving Cayde on Nessus not so much.

Bungie changed it because the campaign was designed to have you level from 1 to 20. Which isn't a thing anymore. It was long on purpose for that reason, and between missions, you had a lot of free roam stuff to get done. Plus they removed the zones from the game entirely.

But the new Timeline feature is a perfect way to at least reintroduce the missions themselves, especially the beginning and end ones.

This isn't rose tinted glasses. Did you even play Red War ?

Originally posted by trukr:

Oh please, now it has popups saying press this or that to do this or that, it shows everything. I was on Titan before I knew what a super was. It was a common complaint that for new players it was as clear as mud.

You do understand that Tutorials with narrators and pops up are literally the worst tutorials in existence in game design right ?

And not that Red War was better, you had quests to go back to the shard and "activate" abilities, which would be followed by a short combat scenario where you'd use them to defeat ennemies. But that isn't worse than pop ups. In fact, it's a bit better.

Cosmodrome is bad. If someone is starting destiny 2 in there, I feel for them. What a poor way to set the tone.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Originally posted by trukr:

Originally posted by redk:

Red War wasn't just for players of D1.

Everyone on PC got introduced to D2 with Red War. And it was epic. Much better than the snooze fest Cosmodrome. No better way to start a story than a firefight where you get your teeth kicked in so you're motivated to come back bigger, better, meaner.

And it should come back, in the timeline. Replay the 4 key missions.

To each their own, to me Red War was the snooze fest. The start to me was stupid, there you are in your jump ship, with not a single weapon, you land, you find a gun, you fight. You end up on the ship, that is a bit above the wall, that is far above the tops of skyscraper buildings, your ghost goes dark and falls to the deck, is kicked off the side just a bit before you get kicked off the side. Now, somehow, without the light, the fall not only doesn't kill you, but you also actually get up and walk away. Then, somehow your ghost is lit and hovers over to you and informs you he cannot help you. Then you start the long boring trudge out of the city and across the landscape.

Red War had it's moments, Forsaken saved the game, and even it's campaign had a big start and ending with meh middle with some good points scattered about.

New Light is in response to the complaints all the way back there and along the way, about new players not being shown how to do things, it has the things people asked for. Did Bungie knock it out of the park, no they didn't, but it does teach new players how to do things. Also now, once you get to an early part, you can skip it. Personally, I think a prompt at the start to select to do the tutorial or skip it would be best.

New light was a response to Bungie going free 2 play after it came to steam and it didnt have anything ti do with the red war.

The only thing bad about year 1 d2 was COO.

[trukr]

Originally posted by TneX:

Originally posted by trukr:

Oh please, now it has popups saying press this or that to do this or that, it shows everything. I was on Titan before I knew what a super was. It was a common complaint that for new players it was as clear as mud.

lmao
I'm sorry, but there is no way that is true. The game had you do a super as part of the process of regaining your light.

Do you remember how far in the game that was, that's not new player onboarding at that point.

[trukr]

Originally posted by redk:

You're wearing a space suit with triple jump and glide capabilities.

That's not your light making you hover as a titan, you even hear the jet sound effect.

What a reach, if that was true all classes would be the same on that, they're not, and it's not a space suit.

Originally posted by redk:

The only "meh" parts of the campaign in Red War people were complaining about were the middle segments where "you get the team back together". The first missions until you get your light back from the Shard of the traveler, and the last 2 missions where you stop the Cabal from blowing up the Sun and you defeat Ghaul were all lauded. Saving Cayde on Nessus not so much.

So, mostly meh. The part with the Almighty was really fun.

Originally posted by redk:

Bungie changed it because the campaign was designed to have you level from 1 to 20. Which isn't a thing anymore. It was long on purpose for that reason, and between missions, you had a lot of free roam stuff to get done. Plus they removed the zones from the game entirely.

When the game moved to Steam, Red War was no longer the starting point, so a change was required just for that. Other changes were made after that. Now that freaking thing is a hand holder, to anyone that understands what to do it a bore and too long. To someone that knows none of it, it can be useful if a bit long and boring, but we got what the screechers demanded. At least now there is an option to cut it short and move on.

Originally posted by redk:

But the new Timeline feature is a perfect way to at least reintroduce the missions themselves, especially the beginning and end ones.

The timeline thing is possibilities, time will tell.

Originally posted by redk:

This isn't rose tinted glasses. Did you even play Red War ?

That's a lame question, but yes, in 2018 when I got the game.

Originally posted by redk:

You do understand that Tutorials with narrators and pops up are literally the worst tutorials in existence in game design right ?

Very much debatable.

Originally posted by redk:

And not that Red War was better, you had quests to go back to the shard and "activate" abilities, which would be followed by a short combat scenario where you'd use them to defeat ennemies. But that isn't worse than pop ups. In fact, it's a bit better.

Cosmodrome is bad. If someone is starting destiny 2 in there, I feel for them. What a poor way to set the tone.

Red War is gone, and honestly I don't miss it. I would not be upset if it came back, but I'm also not upset it's gone. The pop ups are just a way of telling the player what to do to get an action, the little bit of text that goes away and can't be brought back is the kind I hate, because if you're busy you might not get the message until it's gone.

I think a better idea for the tutorial would be a repeatable mission that the game ask you if you want to do when starting a new character, and if you say no inform you where to find it to do any time you want.

I also prefer the old way for new expansions/seasons, no auto start. The screeching about "how do I start this" got us that mess. I prefer a bit of time to get my loadout and be more prepared. Sometimes I'm not even ready to start the expansion or season, because someone I want to do it with is not ready (work etc) and I want to wait. Now if that happens, I abandon it so I can go back with fireteam.

So, where was it that new players started in D1?