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The Whisper is all but confirmed as one of the two as there have been various hints at it. The second could be either Zero Hour or Harbinger but personally I think Zero Hour would be a better for for the concept of Into the Light.
Yeah, a lot of the poor decision making was Bungie and they shifted a lot of blame over to Activision, this I completely agree on.
However the reasons I listed for Bungie doing the DCV are still correct, and it seems you agree with me. So I am still unsure as to why you think I wasn't reading between the lines.
What I originally said was:
They lobbed off this content, as you said, and are now bringing some of it back as if all those reasons they gave back then weren't actually true, which they seem to be. All that blaming they did, all those excuses, it seems we both agree it was Bungie not giving us the full truth.
Yeah, it still amazes me that they could have thought that. Though it could also be Bungie not giving us the full truth still. For me it was mostly frustrating because I loved some of the guns they sunset, not necessarily meta but just how they looked and felt. Some of the OG weapons are so unique compared to today. There are still some unique ones but half of them are just copy-pastes.
I completely agree, those are good words of wisdom that I try to follow and wish everyone else would too. I do think though that if a recurrent pattern emerges it's also wise to leave every option on the table and there seems to be a lot of recurrent themes with Bungie that revolve around maximising profit even if the consumer doesn't like it.
If they didn't think it was cool or would lead to something cool I don't think they would have done it, but I digress, we will never truly know.
They are selling old armour sets from previous seasons as ornaments instead of putting the armour into Xurs rotation. For me I would consider this reselling me old content but I'm sure there are probably worse things they have done, this example was just off the top of my head. I remember complaining about something similar a while ago but I can't remember what it was and am not sure if it's still happening or not.
I don't think they were trying to kill their cash cow I actually think the opposite, I think they were and are trying to rinse people of their money at every corner. Sony has made statements about their monetisation practices so hopefully things will improve.
Sorry to hear that man, I hope you feel better soon, it's never fun being sick especially when it involves the lungs and/or breathing.
Well, aren't we arrogant.
What you call obvious is YOUR point of view.
Someone not agreeing with you about some aspect is not the same as "defending" the game or Bungie.
Yes, I happen to agree that things could have been a good deal better, but I don't buy into the gloom and doom narrative.
Yes, you can be critical of anything you wish, but you should be open to opposing opinions and be willing to discuss it and skip that "accept my obvious" thing. None of us are correct on every point all of the time.
Just saying it was not because the game was too large, but too large to fix. That content was free to play for a bit over a year, it was only removed with the launch of Beyond Light. If year one content was not compatible with Beyond Light, they would have to fix it. I think they only managed Forsaken and not year one because their work was so bad that bringing it up to standards for the new version of Tiger was taking too long. Reading between the lines is just that, take all statements from all that made them and see what comes of it, what actually holds water. I firmly believe is was a refusal to do Destiny 2 (err, 3) and continue with Destiny 2 and their shoddy coding that cause the issue. As always, you're free to disagree. We do at least agree that the blame rest firmly on Bungie.
I felt the same, I was very unhappy about that. Now, meh, the replacements I got I feel are better, but before we got them, it sucked. I believe they could have done better and not done the sunsetting thing.
Or, if they felt they had to. You don't always get to do the thing you think is cool or lead to something cool. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and plow ahead in the hopes of getting it right.
To be fair, ornaments that look like something are not that something, they're cosmetics, so it's not like they sell the old armor again. Even the transmog thing people complain about I find odd, you can't just do it all at once? How dare they? LOL What do we want, an I win button so we can move to the next game?
Every company out there wants the same thing, our money, Sony included, and Sony if far from pure. The monetization that so many complain about just puzzles me, Eververse, not any of that is needed to play the game to it's fullest, it's just dress up. Anyone that lacks the willpower to stay out of Eververse is the one with the problem. I don't see Eververse as a problem, it's kind of cool for those who just get a bit here and there over the years, those that go nuts spending there are either wealthy enough or they need to rethink it.
The cost of expansions, for me is not a big deal. For someone who only plays the game a bit, it can be. The dungeon key thing, don't like it at all, yet I have to admit that it has meant two dungeons per expansion. Keep in mind, everything has gotten a lot more expensive, food, fuel and housing are insane, thankfully my home has been all mine since 1999. For me it breaks down to like $8.33/month for the game and I'm OK with that.
If game prices had just followed inflation, the game would be $130.00 or more now ($60.00 games in the early/mid 90's)
I have hated it, but I try to "keep on keeping on" and do the things I do. Still expelling stuff from lungs and sinuses but feel a bit better today. Thanks for the kind words.
I would agree but the armours transmog is what's being resold. It's not the case of something looking similar to how it did in the past, it is the same, except they are only selling the transmog not the armour too. Adding the armour back to Xur would have probably been easier than just selling the transmog in the store too which is the real kicker.
I do agree, profits are the reason why businesses do what they do but at the same time it's supposed to be a balance. Go too hard and the consumer will not like it, go too little and you won't make enough to stay afloat. Sony seem to think Bungie are going to hard and I tend to agree. Some of this is speculation obviously they have only really said they think the expansion bundles are confusing... I digress.
As for eververse, I would normally agree with that sentiment for other games stores but how Bungie are doing some things irks me a bit. They like to put artificial restrictions on in-game things (such as synthweave bounties) which basically forces you to buy more if you want something. The limit is artificial and is only there to extract money from people.
The synthweave bounty is particularly frustrating to me because the armour you collect turning into transmog is a big part of the game and the limit is completely unnecessary. The synthweave in the store should only serve as a shortcut, not a restriction. They already have money-only transmog sets why make the actual armour need money too.
I also don't have too much of a problem with how they are currently pricing the expansions. I think the main problem with them is how confusing it is for new buyers. It's very easy to buy the same thing more than once which is a shocking oversight by Bungie. Sony thinks the same so hopefully that means it will be made easier.
You lost me, I though we were talking about ornaments, the thing that make your armor look like another set? That's not the actual set and that's why I'm OK with it. If you had the actual set you could just use transmog to make your own ornaments. I see no issue with that, it optional and cosmetic only.
I'm not sure how much weight I can give what Sony says, they're not our saviors.
Balancing the prices is something they all have to do, some do better than others. Sony says they are too aggressive, like they are not.
The DLC list is as confusing on everything I have looked at in the Steam store, content listed along with bundles that include it, and the price at the bottom adding it all up to some insane number, I remember Borderlands games having the same issue.
It WOULD be really cool if they could do a get it all option that discounts for the parts of that all you already have, they did have that on Borderlands games.
I hate the overuse of the word "artificial", it a limit they set, it's not artificial. This should be about the journey, not the destination. Why expect it all right away? There are many things you can do once a week per character, once again, a limit they set. I have lots of ornaments, and have really slowed on the transmog thing, not done a transmog bounty this season and have about the max.
Huh? You can get enough to do two sets per character per season, free. Synthweave in Eververs IS a shortcut, that's all it is. The synthweave you get from ADA1 bounties is the same stuff only free. Slow down, don't rush, and don't spend money you don't need to, or be OK with spending money. I don't buy that stuff.
That would be really cool, like how Steam does it when buying DLC for a game you already own. I hope Bungie do that. It's all handled on Bungies end unfortunately so Steam can't discount automatically. I reckon if Sony are true to their word and make it less confusing we'll see the DLC that overlap with one another get separated more distinctly. Here's to hoping.
I get what you mean but at the same time I think pacing like this should be up to the consumer, or at least more-so. Some limits are fine but others feel cheap. I don't mind loot being on rotations and similar mechanics as it gives us choice but having paywalls blocking me from playing through content naturally as it presents itself doesn't feel right.
I'd call it a paywall. It's a wall with a pricetag that is blocking me from experiencing the content naturally. If they didn't want me to get that much synthweave just make the bounties longer or more challenging.
A shortcut should feel optional, but if I want to get more than 2 transmog sets per season I have to pay, there is no other natural way of doing that in-game.
It's literally an ornament set, it's not armor, it's a cosmetic item. Transmog has nothing to do with it. You use transmog to make your own ornaments, if you ever had the armor set you can literally just use transmog to make your own ornaments, you don't need to actually still have the set, just have it unlocked.
How is cosmetics playing natural? None are needed to play.
It is optional, you don't need any cosmetics to play the game, you can make the choice to spend money or not to and get what you can get free. It's not like some old games where you're playing and get the grats on getting this far, now to unlock the rest of the game give me money. The way is you can create two sets per character per season for free, the shortcut is spending money, you don't have to.
I meant natural as in unlocking or getting whatever it is I am trying to get through playing the game rather than having the game limit me and only leave me the option of paying, which is also applicable to synthweave.
I know cosmetics, and by extention synthweave, is optional and is not be needed to play the game but the transmog system is a big part of the game regardless. Destiny is often memed as drip-stiny for a reason. Having the devs put a limit on a bounty system to stop me from earning too much of something (by playing) is artificial and only has one purpose; to get some suckers to pay money.
Let me play the game, let me do the bounties, let me earn the synthweave. Make it harder if you think I am getting it too fast. Don't put a cap on it and leave me with ONLY the option of paying.
What armor set is this you speak of?
OK, there are thing you must pay for if you want them, even expansions and season passes, it all part of it and "natural". You want to be able to do things to unlock them as many times as you like, they chose to limit that to two sets worth per character per season, it is their IP and there choice. I have a pretty decent number of universal ornaments, some were transmog, some were from Eververse using Bright Dust and others were from season pass reward tracks.
As I have already stated, there are lots of things with limitations in the game.
I don't agree that transmog is a big part of the game, it's part but I think fairly small part.
Their game, their rules. You are not left with only one choice, you have the choice to be patient and wait for the next season (such a long season, sigh).
My point is the way you blasted in here like YOUR view is the "obvious" truth is BS.
"Sometimes it just doesn't make sense for any kind of discussion when someone won't accept the obvious and tries to correct the narrative every time in defense of the bad things in the game purely because they love the game, I personally think that D2 is basically a good game just the last couple of years game is in a very bad state because some people constantly defend the game and the studio and it gives them the impression that things are better than they are. I want to say that it is possible to be critical of the thing you love because you want the best for it, you don't have to constantly defend the game because you love playing it."
^^This is what I responded to, nothing about recycled content.
I don't think I have seen people say nothing is wrong, I see disagreement on what it is wrong and how it came to be. I don't see people "defending" Bungie, but some things some people don't have as much an issue with as some others.
The microtransactions complaint is BS, it's not like any of it is required. If you want the stuff but are unwilling to pay for it, don't pay for it. Some things like ornaments, both weapon and armor cycle in for Bright Dust, that's a good time to get them.
They don't have limits on other bounties. They also used to have limits for other resources until people complained. I don't see why synthweave bounties should be an exception.
Caps on resources are often unnecessary, especially when it comes to transmog on gear we have already collected. Most other games with transmog systems or similar don't have these limits either making Bungie an outlier.
I don't understand how anyone can defend such an anti-consumer thing like this.
One of the most sought after casual playlist commendations is the "best dressed" commendation. A huge portion of the community shares transmog outfits and have competitions. Actually I am pretty sure Bungie has had outfit competitions too if I am not mistaken. There is a whole subsection of people who adore this system. It's not a small part of the game at all.
I don't play raids too much but can still understand that they are a huge portion of the game, just like how the people who don't participate in transmogging should understand that it is still a big part of the game. Whether you think it's big or not I can tell you that is most certainly is.
Ok so pay more money or don't experience a portion of the game that they have already sold me? I payed for this game. I payed for the transmog system. Let me use it fully. Why have cosmetics at all?
Thing is, was pretty sure I knew when I asked, only asked in case I was wrong. It's the Virtuous set, that was never an armor set, it was a universal ornament set from the season pass reward track, they brought it back for those that did not get the chance or did not get it for whatever reason, it wasn't free then, you had to have the season pass.
I said "it is their IP and there (oops their) choice." How is that defending, how lazy. I just acknowledged that we don't have a say, we can only suggest and or complain.
Reality check, I am not here to please you. I responded to a post from you and you responded like I had been responding to something you didn't say, when I see BS I call it out, put on the adult pants.
You're another lazy one that says people are defending things when they're not. When I express my thoughts/feeling on something I am not wrong, those are my thoughts/feeling not yours. What I said is true, no one is forcing you to buy any of that stuff and for the most part you should not in my opinion as I feel it's overpriced. My guess is there are many who don't agree with you or even me, I see a lot of Eververse ornaments in game, so there are people buying the stuff.
I don't care about some youtube person's thoughts on it, I have my big boy pants on and make up my own mind. I won't pay $20.00 or more for an ornament set, I think that's insane, but I wouldn't dream of telling others they can't, it's their choice good or bad. If more people thought like me, the prices might go down, because other people would not be buying the overpriced stuff, but once again, their choice not mine.
I would argue that it is defending them. It's their IP but we are the consumers and they are trying to sell us a product. We need to hold these companies accountable for their actions and actually call out anti-consumer practices. It only perpetuates because we allow it to.
I don't think it is, I know it is. There are multiple systems in place that accommodate the ornament and transmog system, there are entire communities dedicated to it AND Bungie actively supports and encourages it, despite the paywalls they put in place.
Still doesn't change the fact they are offering us a product and artificially stifling our experience with it. It's anti-consumer and they need to be called out for it.
Synthweave wasn't always in the store and if I had known that it would eventually be put there I'm sure that would have raised some alarm bells for past buyers. Sure, may not have stopped most people from buying the game but certainly would have been on peoples radar alongside lots of other red flags, and red flags add up.