I miss the days when raids were less complicated

[Skyward]

It feels like back in the earlier days of Destiny raids were more fun and had less mechanics to worry about when doing them. I miss the days when people could be carried. What do you think, have raids gotten to the point where they are exclusively for players who love doing mechanics?

[redk]

I mean, I definitely remember running around an obstacle course with a ball in Leviathan.

So maybe back in D1 ?

I gotta say, WoW raid mechanics are much more fun than Destiny mechanics.

[Megumin's Husband]

just find a Sherpa group that will teach you, thats how I learned all the raids

[Coldhands]

I don't. I didn't care for RoN nearly so much because it felt like they'd substituted group coordination for massive hoards of trash mobs. Also because the Titan armor looked absolutely horrendous, but mostly it was the overload of trash mobs.

[redk]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

I don't. I didn't care for RoN nearly so much because it felt like they'd substituted group coordination for massive hoards of trash mobs. Also because the Titan armor looked absolutely horrendous, but mostly it was the overload of trash mobs.

Let's say you designed an encounter in D2 like WoW does. Take the Iconoclasm Witness fight.

2 tanks, 4-5 healers, 13-14 dps. Witness would be an actual target, with a tank on it 100%. Off tank would pick up the subjugator and Berserker. DPS would cleave off Berserker to burst it down, 2 hunters would do the synchronized shot, and 2 raid stacks would be formed for cover from the Witness aoe blast and getting the seed to refresh the buff.

Then when Subjugator is down, off tank would pick up Witness and main tank would fetch Aegis, raid would stack mid for storm phase, and you'd probably need to drop a well/titan shield to live and Witness would take increased damage, so that's when you'd use Supers/Heavy ammo.

Now Bungie doesn't do this because it requires many more players to pull off than the 3-6 man teams we have. It requires dedicated healing/tanking which the game simply doesn't have. And frankly, it requires much more interesting rotational/burst ability usage than what D2 has with much more sustainability than what Heavy ammo/Special ammo offers.

And that is why the mechanics are different, and DPS is much more targeted with very distinct phases to dps very distinct targets and bosses are immune for most of the fight because otherwise people would probably just cleave off the boss to kill all the adds and the fights would be basically rocket launcher spam trying to beat mechanic timers (like when higher end guilds in WoW cheese fights to prevent 90% of the mechanics through high dps).

Destiny 2 is definitely more exciting to play though being a shooter rather than a sort of action RPG, platforming/puzzle mechanics aside for raid/dungeon bosses.

[ShadowArcanist]

Not only that but the mechanics have leaked out all over the rest of the game. It's like, does everything need a barrier now that I have to find out a riddle me this, guardian...

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by redk:

Destiny 2 is definitely more exciting to play though being a shooter rather than a sort of action RPG, platforming/puzzle mechanics aside for raid/dungeon bosses.

Easily my favorite Destiny experiences are playing with my friends and running group content that requires a lot of communication and coordination. Movement, platforming, everybody doing their part at the right time. Fighting enemies in the process can add that extra pressure which makes doing your part difficult enough to be satisfying to get right, but the fun part isn't shooting the bad guys, it's executing the overall dance correctly as a fireteam.
RoN had less of that than other raids, and a whole lot more trash mobs to clear, and clearing trash mobs isn't all that interesting by itself.

The Witness fight solo, is fine.
The Witness fight in the coop mission with buddies, is much more fun. I feel like that's the kind of gameplay experience Destiny was really designed to deliver and what it does better than almost any other multiplayer game out there.

[Doctor Proteus]

Not a raider, I once read a guide on the Disciple raid and it looked like it was about memorizing pictures and taking the pictures to other pictures.

How many raids in Destiny 2 are like this?

[UncleSam]

Yeah, the new raid is definitely less LFG friendly than it has ever been. The new one has no catch-up mechanic in most encounters due to a wipe timer, so it is more frustrating to play in LFG when one of the six people inevitably mess up and there was nothing you can do about it.

[redk]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by redk:

Destiny 2 is definitely more exciting to play though being a shooter rather than a sort of action RPG, platforming/puzzle mechanics aside for raid/dungeon bosses.

Easily my favorite Destiny experiences are playing with my friends and running group content that requires a lot of communication and coordination. Movement, platforming, everybody doing their part at the right time. Fighting enemies in the process can add that extra pressure which makes doing your part difficult enough to be satisfying to get right, but the fun part isn't shooting the bad guys, it's executing the overall dance correctly as a fireteam.
RoN had less of that than other raids, and a whole lot more trash mobs to clear, and clearing trash mobs isn't all that interesting by itself.

The Witness fight solo, is fine.
The Witness fight in the coop mission with buddies, is much more fun. I feel like that's the kind of gameplay experience Destiny was really designed to deliver and what it does better than almost any other multiplayer game out there.

I think they could ramp it up a bit in terms of having to sustain your dps. Like Iconoclasm Coop, you can just do berserker and sync shot without much interference. As if the bad guys go "Wait guys, they are doing the thing, get out of their way!".

I did Pit of Heresy this weekend for the first time, and the Curse of Suffering is a good example : one guy runs and dunks, 2 guys hold the line. The encounter doesn't pause while you get an orb to dunk. It would be a bit better if the guys holding the platform needed to take turns fetching/dunking to reset stacks of the Curse, as it stands, you can just 5 stack tank the curse the whole time if doing platform.

But yeah, it will never be WoW in terms of having to sustain dps through mechanics. That would be boring as heck. WoW invests you more in your damage rotation, D2 invests you more in navigating the arena for safe zones and survival.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Doctor Proteus:

Not a raider, I once read a guide on the Disciple raid and it looked like it was about memorizing pictures and taking the pictures to other pictures. :lunar2019deadpanpig:

How many raids in Destiny 2 are like this?

Pretty much every raid involves doing a thing to get information which then needs to be called out to another player so they can act on it.
Vow and, I think, the newest raid (haven't run it yet) are pretty symbol heavy, but in any raid you're going to have to tell your team things it is your job to find out, whether you're telling them what picture you see, the order they need to shoot oracle in, or which box can have bombs safely deposited in it.

[Doctor Proteus]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by Doctor Proteus:

Not a raider, I once read a guide on the Disciple raid and it looked like it was about memorizing pictures and taking the pictures to other pictures.

How many raids in Destiny 2 are like this?

Pretty much every raid involves doing a thing to get information which then needs to be called out to another player so they can act on it.
Vow and, I think, the newest raid (haven't run it yet) are pretty symbol heavy, but in any raid you're going to have to tell your team things it is your job to find out, whether you're telling them what picture you see, the order they need to shoot oracle in, or which box can have bombs safely deposited in it.

I don't find this very appealing, and not just because I don't have a microphone. Destiny 2 really has an accessibility problem.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Doctor Proteus:

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Pretty much every raid involves doing a thing to get information which then needs to be called out to another player so they can act on it.
Vow and, I think, the newest raid (haven't run it yet) are pretty symbol heavy, but in any raid you're going to have to tell your team things it is your job to find out, whether you're telling them what picture you see, the order they need to shoot oracle in, or which box can have bombs safely deposited in it.

I don't find this very appealing, and not just because I don't have a microphone. Destiny 2 really has an accessibility problem.

This is probably not the game for you then. Almost all the best content in the game is designed around coordination with one or more other players.

[Rivery Jerald]

Originally posted by Skyward:

It feels like back in the earlier days of Destiny raids were more fun and had less mechanics to worry about when doing them. I miss the days when people could be carried. What do you think, have raids gotten to the point where they are exclusively for players who love doing mechanics?

oh boy, here comes the guy that said gambit is pvp and not pve by making 2 threads of the same topic within a day of each other

[Husker]

Imagine if we got raids where you just shoot things like the FInal Shape excision. wowzers!

[Djura]

The new raid is really complicated... So annoying