Why are all raids like that?

[Jidobor🗿]

Typical destiny 2 raid is 90%
- jump puzzles
- listening to balding men on discord
- shooting some symbols you're assigned to shoot
- standing on platforms
- killing infinite adds
- carrying/throwing some spheres

And then only like 10% is a dps phase where you get to shoot the boss that you came here to kill. Anybody else feels this way?

[Kylito]

Postat inițial de Emurinus:

Postat inițial de Grimmy:

I'd like to see a raid/dungeon boss kinda like in other MMOs where you can constantly damage it and it does mechanics during that which you have to take care of. Beats the boss just being protected by plot armour until you do the safety dance.

Basically what Golgoroth, Templar, Riven*, Kalli, The Dogs, and a few others -that I probably can't remember- do.

*Riven can be cheesed through sheer DPS instead of doing her entire encounter. I doubt Bungie has any plans on fixing this either.

This Tuesday in Pantheon Riven will be added. I hope SO badly they patch out the cheese.

[baxsus]

Exotic missions > raids. Dungeons > raids. Raids are obsolete.

[Kylito]

Postat inițial de baxsus:

Exotic missions > raids. Dungeons > raids. Raids are obsolete.

Hard disagree. Dungeons have no time restrictions or wipe mechanics, and Exotic Missions are a completely different experience than raids. You can do raids many times over and get loot, while Exotic Missions you just do the couple times it takes for the given triumphs and that's all.

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Postat inițial de DCR:

Postat inițial de BOOF:

I have raided wow, ffxiv, and lost ark. I really enjoy the way destiny 2 does raids. Its a nice mixture of boss battles, puzzles, and coordination games. I can't think of anything I would like to remove or see added. The raids provide me and friends an amazing experience.

Maybe step back and take a break or try another game with raids. Surely you will soon be back to destiny afterwards ;)

I can see it working that way, it doesnt work with randoms unless you have some majority doing the stuff thats needed. The really funny thing was day 1 pantheon and everyone asking "need experts", and nobody had done it before. Still a lot of people probably haven't.
If you have a team of patience and experienced players otherwise, there's little challenge for sure. We need better and more match making criteria for fireteamfinder in general. As it is now, the listing titles are not specific enough. Maybe in destiny 3 who knows.

don't use fire team finder the quality of players there are far below just using the lfg discord

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Postat inițial de MommaBee:

I personally feel alot of the single player or story driven missions should be more relaxed and not "hey here's one life, by yourself" or they expect you to use their "team finder" that's god awful.
and if they do allow you respawn some missions require nearly 15 seconds or more to respawn?? SOLO???
like they expect players to mit max their armor, weapons, load outs and everything else for the PERFECT BUILD in order to be able to do raids, dungeons or just about anything that's "end game".
many of the long term players will tell you "that's just how it is" but you'll see a constant pattern of players leaving or dropping destiny 2 because of how much ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it is to do dungeons, raids or anything solo.

You do not need Min maxxed armour or "perfect" loadouts to do raids, MAYBE master raids but even then skill is more important than loadout

[Filipino Enjoyer]

Postat inițial de baxsus:

Exotic missions > raids. Dungeons > raids. Raids are obsolete.

Spoken like someone who's never done a raid before

[Kitsune Raven]

I just wish they wouldn't lock exotics behind Raids. I get excited for a new exotic wep that looks good, then find out it's Raid only drop and it's just...depressing. Cause I know I will never get to use and enjoy it. =(

[DCR]

Postat inițial de Filipino Enjoyer:

Postat inițial de DCR:

I can see it working that way, it doesnt work with randoms unless you have some majority doing the stuff thats needed. The really funny thing was day 1 pantheon and everyone asking "need experts", and nobody had done it before. Still a lot of people probably haven't.
If you have a team of patience and experienced players otherwise, there's little challenge for sure. We need better and more match making criteria for fireteamfinder in general. As it is now, the listing titles are not specific enough. Maybe in destiny 3 who knows.

don't use fire team finder the quality of players there are far below just using the lfg discord

Fireteam finder is what i'd define as in vicinity of "too little too late". It's great it's there, but it's so way overdue it's only one word that's really fitting : sad. The whole buildup of how the game's MM works could have been so much better. But now everything is used to a certain standard, and it "just is the way it is".
Having said that of course your right. But it doesnt mean that the game couldnt improve either way. But tbh, i feel like the ship has sailed, it always was an after thought from a developer pov.
The one good concept about such an utility as fireteam finder is that it can remove a lot of the requirements that one would ask the player to do, ie do you have this or that, please equip that. Saves everyone time. And thats why it should have been there from the start.
Then again, they still haven't fixed the fps issues with the game engine so whatever really.

[Doctor Proteus]

It's a shame some story elements are hidden behind Raids. Some people will never see Rhulk let alone beat him.

[DCR]

Postat inițial de Doctor Proteus:

It's a shame some story elements are hidden behind Raids. Some people will never see Rhulk let alone beat him.

About 93% of the playerbase. Developer issue. Not engaging players to give neither communication or incentive to play the damned thing. I don't think they feel any shame about it tho. They're just in it for the money.

[`digitaL.braVo]

Postat inițial de 76561198868127406:

Typical destiny 2 raid is 90%
- jump puzzles
- listening to balding men on discord
- shooting some symbols you're assigned to shoot
- standing on platforms
- killing infinite adds
- carrying/throwing some spheres

And then only like 10% is a dps phase where you get to shoot the boss that you came here to kill. Anybody else feels this way?

Just uninstall. You don't like the core game.

[Rave Pathfinder.]

I like them, just not the ones in the dark, being nearsighted gamer makes those 10x harder.

[redk]

Postat inițial de `digitaL.braVo:

Postat inițial de 76561198868127406:

Typical destiny 2 raid is 90%
- jump puzzles
- listening to balding men on discord
- shooting some symbols you're assigned to shoot
- standing on platforms
- killing infinite adds
- carrying/throwing some spheres

And then only like 10% is a dps phase where you get to shoot the boss that you came here to kill. Anybody else feels this way?

Just uninstall. You don't like the core game.

Nothing in the core game even closely ressembles the gameplay in Dungeons and Raids. The core game (campaign, strikes, nightfalls, about every other type of event) is more DOOM like arenas with hordes of monsters to shoot down.

So a person that does in fact like the core game would be met with quite the jarring gameplay swap when heading into a raid or dungeon. Even some Exotic missions with their platforming are kind jarring.

It's not like boss fights have to be these huge puzzles either with very constrained DPS phases. WoW does raiding much better than pretty much any MMO, and your boss uptime is 80-90% of the fights. You DPS while handling mechanics, instead of doing mechanics to unlock the boss' dps phase. So there is a way to force players to react to changes in the environment while keeping their guns pointed at the boss and shooting, and that makes for much better gameplay. Especially considering some of the Destiny 2 "mechanics" are just puzzles to figure out (kill add Y to drop orb to put in target X, so that object Z unlocks so you can shoot it to remove a "shield charge" or something).

Take the first boss of Warlord's Ruin. Why does it need to be immune at all ? The entire encounter is on a timer. Port to cages into light the lanterns into dps phase depending on the lanterns lit and around again. Why not make the boss take damage the whole time and have the "dps phase" be a double damage phase. That way at least players feel they can actually do something instead of run and hide and kill millions of adds.

Let's not even talk about the maze. I get it, mazes are fun. Once or twice. But they're just huge toxic traps in MMOs like these, where the guy that knows the way zips by, and the poor schmucks who don't get left behind. Then the toxic chat starts. Poor game design for anything but a single player game or the first week of release where no one knows the actual way through.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Postat inițial de redk:

Postat inițial de `digitaL.braVo:

Just uninstall. You don't like the core game.

Nothing in the core game even closely ressembles the gameplay in Dungeons and Raids. The core game (campaign, strikes, nightfalls, about every other type of event) is more DOOM like arenas with hordes of monsters to shoot down.

So a person that does in fact like the core game would be met with quite the jarring gameplay swap when heading into a raid or dungeon. Even some Exotic missions with their platforming are kind jarring.

It's not like boss fights have to be these huge puzzles either with very constrained DPS phases. WoW does raiding much better than pretty much any MMO, and your boss uptime is 80-90% of the fights. You DPS while handling mechanics, instead of doing mechanics to unlock the boss' dps phase. So there is a way to force players to react to changes in the environment while keeping their guns pointed at the boss and shooting, and that makes for much better gameplay. Especially considering some of the Destiny 2 "mechanics" are just puzzles to figure out (kill add Y to drop orb to put in target X, so that object Z unlocks so you can shoot it to remove a "shield charge" or something).

Take the first boss of Warlord's Ruin. Why does it need to be immune at all ? The entire encounter is on a timer. Port to cages into light the lanterns into dps phase depending on the lanterns lit and around again. Why not make the boss take damage the whole time and have the "dps phase" be a double damage phase. That way at least players feel they can actually do something instead of run and hide and kill millions of adds.

Let's not even talk about the maze. I get it, mazes are fun. Once or twice. But they're just huge toxic traps in MMOs like these, where the guy that knows the way zips by, and the poor schmucks who don't get left behind. Then the toxic chat starts. Poor game design for anything but a single player game or the first week of release where no one knows the actual way through.

Whats wrong about being 'pulled' to the boss fights from mazes? This sounds like a issue with the persons who dont know the maze tbh

If you wanna do it fully blind, then dont use the in game fireteam finder and make a premade arranged group via discord.

I have yet to see 'toxic' chat in premades evedn with sherpa's or what not that are help[ing new people understand the raids.


Destiny has always been a mechanical IP, where mechanics prio over damage.

That never changed during d1, or d2.

Dont compare destiny raiding to raiding that you see in MMO's like FFXIV(Fyi this also happens in FFXIV) or WOW(Raids are usually 20 man here). They're completely different raids. The mechanics are not prior on lower difficulty (Where as here they are).

The reason raiding works in Destiny is because its way less 'chaos' and you odnt have to manage large partys.


p.s

You have been in a raid instance... for 6 times. I mean come on... And oh boi, that was only on Leviathan....

[redk]

Postat inițial de GamingWithSilvertail:

Whats wrong about being 'pulled' to the boss fights from mazes? This sounds like a issue with the persons who dont know the maze tbh

Yes, it's an issue with people who don't know the maze. That's the whole point of a maze to begin with.

In a game with coop where strangers will party together, this is a toxic design trap.

Postat inițial de GamingWithSilvertail:

If you wanna do it fully blind, then dont use the in game fireteam finder and make a premade arranged group via discord.

Even most guides for Warlord's Ruin are "And then you go through the maze and get to the 2nd boss".

That's it.

So the "Duh read a guide numbskull" toxicity is quite unwarranted.

Postat inițial de GamingWithSilvertail:

I have yet to see 'toxic' chat in premades evedn with sherpa's or what not that are help[ing new people understand the raids.

Then be a newer player doing the content after reading and watching guides.

I've been told numerous times to stop trying to do dungeons, stop queuing for Crucible. Stop joining any sort of group.

I'm a Mythic WoW raider, all I need is to do this stuff once or twice to figure it out. But the first time through, there's always toxic chat.

So maybe you as a veteran don't see it, but that's because you can't experience the game as newer players do.

Heck, what you're doing right now ? That's the toxicity that's plagging this community. It's no different than the toxicity in the WoW playerbase btw, it's a general "veteran" vs "newbie" clash that occurs every game where the designers try to shove both player bases together.

But WoW has a better way of handling things where new players can at least experience the content with fewer mechanics and less veterans through its queued systems. Simplified raids and dungeons you can queue for, so at least you can figure out things like the maze, and an encounters baseline mechanics (at least get a feel for different phases or positioning). They can then graduate through the dungeons and raid difficulties in a much more controlled fashion.

Postat inițial de GamingWithSilvertail:

You have been in a raid instance... for 6 times. I mean come on... And oh boi, that was only on Leviathan....

That's because I have played Season 1 and season 2.

And now season 23. You want my entire resume ? The fact you had to look up my profile to quip at it is just more of that "Hey, let's target the newbie!" toxicity that's everywhere in this community. It says something when even the WoW community acts better.

I qualify as a "new player" by every metric. I started playing again like a month ago dude. Just getting dungeon groups has been enough of a pain that I certainly don't want to go into raids. Because the whole game is quite nice and fun solo, but the minute you introduce random strangers it becomes a toxic nightmare.

Just trying to get Trials engrams you should see the amount of crap I get. I'm sorry I don't run aimbots and wall hacks and can't see guys before they see me using their cheats.