Can we stop putting Tormentor fights in tiny rooms?

[Aleuvian]

This is, without a doubt, my biggest gripe against both LightFall and, so far, The Final Shape. Tormentors in tiny rooms with no effective ways to avoid them aside from spamming your abilities and praying they don't use their grab attack to instantly kill you.

Spoilers for the fight I've had to retry five times now...
In Dissent, there is a fight where you have to kill three elite Wizards with their own groups of mobs, then afterward you return to a central room to fight a Tormentor and a horde of Attendants spamming Strand and Stasis attacks at you.

In my opinion, this encounter isn't just unfair, it's just poorly designed from the getup. Tormentor's pretty much require ALL of your attention as a solo player to deal with, otherwise they will just instantly kill you, and in a small room with limited cover and other enemies spamming abilities that stun or freeze you against that enemy is just bad design.

Whoever at Bungie is insisting that Tormentors need to be fought in tiny rooms really needs to play the game themselves.

For context, the fight is on Legend, so I get it's supposed to be hard, but the difficulty should be consistent throughout the entire campaign, not piss-easy then the equivalent of fighting a main battle tank with a spoon the next.

Now you can all just post "get good" and get it out of your system, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Jagdtiger]

Because it's such an amazing idea to put the melee enemy in a giant, open arena. Of course we are going to fight tormentors in enclosed spaces, that's just arena design 101. Also, that specific tormentor isn't even particularly tanky despite being an ultra enemy, literally just shoot it until it dies. It even has weak support to help you get your health back, so unless you're bumbling around on a default prismatic half-build, it shouldn't be a problem to feed off the minimal adds and blast him with anything precision

[TooHigh2Die]

What weps and build you using? I was cruising until the final boss and honestly had to stop using prismatic (its weak without certain aspects/exotics) and had to resort to lorely splendor solar titan (classic self auto heal ez bot build) and annihilated that smokey head MF

[Aleuvian]

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

Because it's such an amazing idea to put the melee enemy in a giant, open arena. Of course we are going to fight tormentors in enclosed spaces, that's just arena design 101. Also, that specific tormentor isn't even particularly tanky despite being an ultra enemy, literally just shoot it until it dies. It even has weak support to help you get your health back, so unless you're bumbling around on a default prismatic half-build, it shouldn't be a problem to feed off the minimal adds and blast him with anything precision

You don't need to put them in a giant open area, but you do need ways to evade them.
Minimal ads is a massive understatement for the fight I'm talking about, though, and I am strongly doubting you played it on Legendary.

[Aleuvian]

Originally posted by TooHigh2Die:

What weps and build you using? I was cruising until the final boss and honestly had to stop using prismatic (its weak without certain aspects/exotics) and had to resort to lorely splendor solar titan (classic self auto heal ez bot build) and annihilated that smokey head MF

Prismatic Warlock with Thorn, Gnawing Hunger, Marcato-45 for that fight. I would use Midnight Coup for the Shrieker room to clear it quickly so I don't have to eat infinite projectiles.

I finally finished the fight. I would charge Prismatic in the three rooms. Throw Coldsnap on the ground to freeze the Tormentor, then Prismatic grenade, Incinerator Snap for ads and Cataclysm for the Tormentor.
Marcato-45 for the ads and Tormentor, then on reload swap to Thorn for the additional tick damage. Gnawing Hunger on reloads to deal with ads and that ultimately worked.

It felt more like RNG than anything else, though. The only time I actually beat it was the one time the Tormentor decided not to use the instant kill grab attack. Every time it would initiate that attack, I would never have the room to actually get distance from it.

[Söze]

I cant even remember which mission this is.

The only tormentor related mission i found annoying at most, was the one where you are in a cave with fallen, where there is one hit trip mines that spawn after you kill some ads and then the tormentor shows up to prolong the pain lmao.

Still I think, yes they need to find new ways to engage them into fights, but at the end of the day they are melee enemies, and are meant to be champion level difficult so, makes sense we have to fight in their playground (CQC).

I often just find a high ground and snipe their crits.

[Jagdtiger]

Originally posted by Aleuvian:

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

Because it's such an amazing idea to put the melee enemy in a giant, open arena. Of course we are going to fight tormentors in enclosed spaces, that's just arena design 101. Also, that specific tormentor isn't even particularly tanky despite being an ultra enemy, literally just shoot it until it dies. It even has weak support to help you get your health back, so unless you're bumbling around on a default prismatic half-build, it shouldn't be a problem to feed off the minimal adds and blast him with anything precision

You don't need to put them in a giant open area, but you do need ways to evade them.
Minimal ads is a massive understatement for the fight I'm talking about, though, and I am strongly doubting you played it on Legendary.

I beat it on legendary solo around 6 hours after it first released. That fight shouldn't even be a roadbump. The only few adds spawning are some grim and something else i can't remember, that only serve as fodder for building kill buffs. It's easier than the tormentor fight in the tripmine room, where there are no adds and you are left to your own devices

[Aleuvian]

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

Originally posted by Aleuvian:

You don't need to put them in a giant open area, but you do need ways to evade them.
Minimal ads is a massive understatement for the fight I'm talking about, though, and I am strongly doubting you played it on Legendary.

I beat it on legendary solo around 6 hours after it first released. That fight shouldn't even be a roadbump. The only few adds spawning are some grim and something else i can't remember, that only serve as fodder for building kill buffs. It's easier than the tormentor fight in the tripmine room, where there are no adds and you are left to your own devices

There are no Grim in that entire arena, so you have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue what you're talking about.

You fight three Wizards before descending deeper in the temple. After each Wizard, you return to the central room and fight, in order, 3 thralls and 3 acolytes, 3 elite acolytes, and finally the Tormentor alongside Weavers and Attendants who keep respawning in waves until the Tormentor is defeated.

The Tormentor only has one health bar, but starts on it's second phase (after the shoulders are broken), so it can instantly go into the grab attack at any point during the fight.

The arena is laid out into three rooms off of a small, central room. The central room is where the Tormentor fight happens. There are four pillars in the room. You can go into the two small flanking rooms, but these are dead ends and there is no central cover for you to evade the Tormentor with.

[Red]

when I saw 3 wizards I thought it was a boring encounter, when the tormentor spawned I wa glad I didnt spend any heavy beforehand...

But heavily agree, their level design(not the art team) has gotten so boring the last few years. Bullet sponge -> small room -> unlimited ads.

JOB DONE BOYS...

[TobbeManNBOT]

Originally posted by Aleuvian:

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

I beat it on legendary solo around 6 hours after it first released. That fight shouldn't even be a roadbump. The only few adds spawning are some grim and something else i can't remember, that only serve as fodder for building kill buffs. It's easier than the tormentor fight in the tripmine room, where there are no adds and you are left to your own devices

There are no Grim in that entire arena, so you have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue what you're talking about.

You fight three Wizards before descending deeper in the temple. After each Wizard, you return to the central room and fight, in order, 3 thralls and 3 acolytes, 3 elite acolytes, and finally the Tormentor alongside Weavers and Attendants who keep respawning in waves until the Tormentor is defeated.

The Tormentor only has one health bar, but starts on it's second phase (after the shoulders are broken), so it can instantly go into the grab attack at any point during the fight.

The arena is laid out into three rooms off of a small, central room. The central room is where the Tormentor fight happens. There are four pillars in the room. You can go into the two small flanking rooms, but these are dead ends and there is no central cover for you to evade the Tormentor with.

I dont wanna spoil anything so I just say You Just wait mate

[Rein Terios]

Ay, yes, that fight. I died here one time, because i've started to backtrack into the room where i've killed the third wizard and didn't see the force field. By the time i realised i got cornered, Tormentor wiped me out in two strikes. xD

But seriously, this fight is not as annoying as the final battle. You will see.

[Aleuvian]

Originally posted by TobbeManNBOT:

I dont wanna spoil anything so I just say You Just wait mate

You mean the Pillar fight? That's the only fight after that and it is FAR easier than the Tormenter.

I just finished the last mission of the campaign on Legendary and I'm not sure what fight you're talking about that has a Tormentor with just some Grim. Maybe you are confusing the Tormentor and Subjugator?

EDIT: The only two difficult encounters I had were the first floor of the temple in Dissent, and the Tormentor in the tripmine room earlier in the game. The issue with both of these areas are that they are very small arenas with a large number of obstacles for you, and none for the Tormentor.

Because of the design of Tormentors as an enemy, you pretty much have to focus on them so you know what attack you need to be dodging while dealing damage, and that doesn't work in small areas where you can easily get stuck on obstacles or killed by traps. With multiple players to kite the Tormentor, that's fine, but solo? Not at all.

[Aleuvian]

Originally posted by Elphir Rein:

Ay, yes, that fight. I died here one time, because i've started to backtrack into the room where i've killed the third wizard and didn't see the force field. By the time i realised i got cornered, Tormentor wiped me out in two strikes. xD

But seriously, this fight is not as annoying as the final battle. You will see.

I did the final battle on my first try. I genuinely thought there had to be more after that.
I'm surprised they didn't spawn 3 Tormentors in that arena, there was enough space for it.

[Shard of Manus]

So far I've found nearly every Legendary 'main' encounter to be tedious and badly designed.

It just seems to be 'absolutely overwhelm with as many enemies as possible, throw in some environmental hazards, and then chuck in a Tormenter when we feel like it".

A lot of them are simple fights, but just drawn out - like the split room with all the mines, Fallen etc., and some are just annoying. Tormenters in general though I just think suck. Fairly easy to avoid, but tanky and dull to fight.

[Kylito]

Melee enemy in a small room is actually good encounter design. You want to talk about bad encounter design? Healthgates for LOST SECTOR bosses. But a tormentor? Come on now. Just shoot its tummy and run in circles with heals.

[Rein Terios]

Originally posted by Aleuvian:

Originally posted by Elphir Rein:

Ay, yes, that fight. I died here one time, because i've started to backtrack into the room where i've killed the third wizard and didn't see the force field. By the time i realised i got cornered, Tormentor wiped me out in two strikes. xD

But seriously, this fight is not as annoying as the final battle. You will see.

I did the final battle on my first try. I genuinely thought there had to be more after that.
I'm surprised they didn't spawn 3 Tormentors in that arena, there was enough space for it.

The fight was easy, but for some reason the Strand Subjugator was hating my guts so much, it would always jump on me when i have the lowest hp T_T