Remove controllers Bullet mag or Aim assist, them having both is dumb.

[Shikikan]

Just tested it and you have MORE consistent Aim assist and bullet mag with controllers then with M&K, there is no reason to not be running controller for trials or comp with this added help.

Bungie. PICK ONE. The fact they get both is so stupid.

[Shikikan]

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

Originally posted by Gentiane:

Peer 2 Peer is awful, there is literally not a disadvantage to having bad internet.

We used to OBGM in Year 1 but "Meh I just want kills like elimination" stole that from us. Random rolls is good but not when everyone has the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ roll, there is no diversity in comp or trials weapons.

Maps are straight up awful D1 maps that are not how the game is played anymore. D1 maps such as anomaly, Exodus Blue, etc were made for 6v6 SLOW play. Not quick movement, high intensity 3v3 and even with 6v6 on those maps it's so stupid how you can just sit in the sky or in a corner and there is so much clutter on those maps that you can't see ♥♥♥♥.

MWO (Modern Warfare Online?) if so then I remember that, devs don't care unless it is profitable which is understandable to a degree, this is their job; however, like with MWO and siege they cater too much to one side, which is awful in many ways. Which Bungie themselves are guilty of as the design decisions of BL were based almost solely from content creators wants.

Comp and Trials are awful. As an ex-top 500 player I can say that adding trials to the game instead of overhauling comp and the crucible was a bad decision and opened the game up to the hellscape it is now.

Nah it was Mechwarrior Online, niche game by a studio that mainly made shovelware titles and even it's small community managed to build a comp scene that the devs eventually supported with world championship tournaments with finals held at a live venue.

The reason i'm listing random rolls as a negative for comp is that it lowers the skill ceiling due to players having to spend x amount of time farming for the right rolls instead of improving their skills. Imagine CS if Dupreh, Device, Niko, Stewie, etc, had to spend time farming for the right stats on a deagle or ak.

Aye i played in year one but i didn't think the objective based mode was very well done or interesting. For comp you need an objective based mode but one where the maps are tailored to that mode so that teams can come up with an interesting variety of compositions and strats.

Ah I see, gotta look into that to learn more.

True, true. I understand that practice and getting really good takes a long time and farming takes away from that.

Understandable, While OBGM could have been done better it is still, imho, a better "comp" scene than 3v3 elimination which is almost impossible to win when a teammate gets taken out.

[ Savathun's Thong ]

Certain guns get a lot of aim assist / bullet magnetism with controllers. Just watch these vids lol. Certain guns not so.

But Last Word is super notable for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G2agqyAimw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaxofjVPsvE

[MOSLEY]

^ Significantly longer TTK than a normal HC or auto rifle with M&K.

That's just Kruzer being melodramatic because YouTube.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by ∞:

Imagine post and compare videos, that almost 1 year old! Mouse and keyboard always will be better in fps. Plus, on M&K you almost don't feel recoil, but on gamepad you feel it quite well. So that rumors is very laughable!

You do feel recoil on mkb, the difference is that with a decent sized mousepad you can just pull the mouse in the opposite direction of the drag to keep it more stable.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

Originally posted by ∞:

Imagine post and compare videos, that almost 1 year old! Mouse and keyboard always will be better in fps. Plus, on M&K you almost don't feel recoil, but on gamepad you feel it quite well. So that rumors is very laughable!

You do feel recoil on mkb, the difference is that with a decent sized mousepad you can just pull the mouse in the opposite direction of the drag to keep it more stable.

There's less recoil with mouse and keyboard. Google "destiny 2 bloom".

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

You do feel recoil on mkb, the difference is that with a decent sized mousepad you can just pull the mouse in the opposite direction of the drag to keep it more stable.

There's less recoil with mouse and keyboard. Google "destiny 2 bloom".

Do you have a direct link? Googling it just gives me links to info about the rose quest, discussions about bloom differences between individual weapons, and a thread about how gamepad on PC has better AA than gamepad on console.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

There's less recoil with mouse and keyboard. Google "destiny 2 bloom".

Do you have a direct link? Googling it just gives me links to info about the rose quest, discussions about bloom differences between individual weapons, and a thread about how gamepad on PC has better AA than gamepad on console.

If you have 18 minutes to spare, this explains pretty much everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrJv7mj7Ab4

M&K has bullet magnetism + minimal bloom
Controller has bullet magnetism + friction + a lot of bloom

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

Do you have a direct link? Googling it just gives me links to info about the rose quest, discussions about bloom differences between individual weapons, and a thread about how gamepad on PC has better AA than gamepad on console.

If you have 18 minutes to spare, this explains pretty much everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrJv7mj7Ab4

M&K has bullet magnetism + minimal bloom
Controller has bullet magnetism + friction + a lot of bloom

Thanks, very interesting info. It all seems very counter intuitive to even having a "comp" mode in the game though as this lowers the potential skill ceiling no? I mean in many other shooters devs don't chain recoil down because on mkb you can control it via pulling in x direction.

[Shikikan]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

Do you have a direct link? Googling it just gives me links to info about the rose quest, discussions about bloom differences between individual weapons, and a thread about how gamepad on PC has better AA than gamepad on console.

If you have 18 minutes to spare, this explains pretty much everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrJv7mj7Ab4

M&K has bullet magnetism + minimal bloom
Controller has bullet magnetism + friction + a lot of bloom

Bloom means nothing for snipers unless you use a rapid fire frame (Why would you ever) so bloom does not matter for what we were originally talking about.
Friction also means nothing considering you're at a long range and not a medium to close range.

The example I used was because I already knew about bloom and friction which controllers will always have except at long ranges firing only once, in which they have the advantage with added aim assist and bullet mag.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Gentiane:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

If you have 18 minutes to spare, this explains pretty much everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrJv7mj7Ab4

M&K has bullet magnetism + minimal bloom
Controller has bullet magnetism + friction + a lot of bloom

Bloom means nothing for snipers unless you use a rapid fire frame (Why would you ever) so bloom does not matter for what we were originally talking about.
Friction also means nothing considering you're at a long range and not a medium to close range.

The example I used was because I already knew about bloom and friction which controllers will always have except at long ranges firing only once, in which they have the advantage with added aim assist and bullet mag.

Bloom doesn't affect sniper rifles, but controllers do get additional recoil; which does affect sniper rifles. The ability to quickly make follow up shots is nice.

Friction makes flick shots a bit easier when sniping. You know what else makes flick shots waaay easier though? A mouse.

I'm pretty sure that both input methods have the same bullet magnetism, which is what you're talking about with regards to sniper rifles. If you watched the video, you'd see that he believes that mouse & keyboard actually gets more higher "initial accuracy", therefore more bullet magnetism on sniper rifles, but I'm not sure about that.

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

If you have 18 minutes to spare, this explains pretty much everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrJv7mj7Ab4

M&K has bullet magnetism + minimal bloom
Controller has bullet magnetism + friction + a lot of bloom

Thanks, very interesting info. It all seems very counter intuitive to even having a "comp" mode in the game though as this lowers the potential skill ceiling no? I mean in many other shooters devs don't chain recoil down because on mkb you can control it via pulling in x direction.

I agree. I think they should remove or at least significantly reduce the aim assist in D2. It would definitely increase the skill gap between skilled and unskilled players, which is usually a good thing in FPS games IMO.

I think we'd probably need dedicated servers for that though. Not sure how well "less forgiving" aiming mechanics would work with the current hybrid p2p network model.

As for mouse & keyboard having reduced recoil vs. controller - I think that's to counteract the traction aim assist on controller. Traction makes it easier to initially find your target, but without recoil you would just laser them without really having to do anything. With recoil on controller, you actually have to do something to secure the kill.

On mouse and keyboard, there is no traction - it's all you. You have to be precise to initially get your crosshair on target and keep it there in spite of enemy movement and the little bit of recoil that there is.

I'm not arguing that aim assist is a good thing. I'm just saying that it's pretty equal for everyone assuming that you pick the right weapons, and mouse and keyboard vs. controller is fairly well balanced.

[Tr0w]

@Gentiane I thought the Ikelos Sniper Rifle was supposed to be pretty good though?

[Shikikan]

Originally posted by Spr1ggan:

@Gentiane I thought the Ikelos Sniper Rifle was supposed to be pretty good though?

Not imo, rapid fire frames are less consistent compared to 90rpm and 72rpm.

[Shikikan]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Gentiane:

Bloom means nothing for snipers unless you use a rapid fire frame (Why would you ever) so bloom does not matter for what we were originally talking about.
Friction also means nothing considering you're at a long range and not a medium to close range.

The example I used was because I already knew about bloom and friction which controllers will always have except at long ranges firing only once, in which they have the advantage with added aim assist and bullet mag.

Bloom doesn't affect sniper rifles, but controllers do get additional recoil; which does affect sniper rifles. The ability to quickly make follow up shots is nice.

Friction makes flick shots a bit easier when sniping. You know what else makes flick shots waaay easier though? A mouse.

I'm pretty sure that both input methods have the same bullet magnetism, which is what you're talking about with regards to sniper rifles. If you watched the video, you'd see that he believes that mouse & keyboard actually gets more higher "initial accuracy", therefore more bullet magnetism on sniper rifles, but I'm not sure about that.

His example he used for JQK, LW and Sturm only change on controller, not on K&M.
This also doesn't go over any snipers. Which is what my OP was talking about.

12:17-13:31 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lmao, he says M&K have a higher AA but in the footage he has controller has a tighter spread in ALL examples.

Example 1 [imgur.com]
Example 2 [imgur.com]
Example 3 With Hipfire Grip [imgur.com]

He literally shows that controller has a tighter spread than M&K. Icarus grip is also not consistent enough to gather data from but even in the footage he showed controller has a tighter up and down line. His own data and testing shows that controller has a tighter, more accurate spread than M&K. Oh and this is without aiming at all.

13:45 No, he is wrong. If M&K had a higher accuracy than the examples shown would be flipped. That "cone" means nothing when you test it and it is the opposite of what you think it is. M&K had a bigger spread which means it has LESS accuracy not more ffs.

13:47 LMAO that is not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ true. M&K has less stability than controller, there are so many things to consider about that as well. With a controller all you have to do is pull down the stick, but with M&K you are not always pulling down in a perfect line unlike controller, there is also DPI which directly changes the sens and how much you need to pull down and such. Controller literally only has a certain amount of settings, each has been tested and perfected since D1. Jesus for someone who is #1 in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ world he sure knows ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about how these two systems work.

13:59 Reticle friction is to help track the target, he said it himself. The simple fact that the game does not help M&K players out at all shows that controller players get extra help by letting them not over extend on an enemy.

14:10 uhhh duh? It's a mouse, ofc compared to a controller it should be better however, the added help of AA and reticle friction that controllers get makes them better than M&K.

14:35 That is called range, and that only happens with controller, again, controllers get help while M&K get nothing. THIS IS ONLY FURTHER PROVING MY POINT!

The simple fact that he admits they artificially boost AA and accuracy with M&K but it still is out preformed by controller is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ laughable. His own tests showed tighter spread! Weapons only get "Sweet spots" on controller not on M&K which has been tested over and over again.

Finally, to wrap this whole thing up. If Drewsky, the guy in the video, says that M&K are better in every way, then why is he using a controller and dominating M&K players? Oh wait, it's because controllers can and have outclassed M&K.

[Roze]

Originally posted by Cockris, Shaft Of Oryx:

i'm assuming you don't understand the disadvantages that come with controllers, the aim assist is not nearly as extreme as people like you make it sound, they just hit their shots and you should accept that.

honestly yeah AA is too strong on controllers, i just recenty switched too PC from console and while i am still learning movement with MNK it is ridiculously easy to aim with controllers i do think the game should tweak it

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Gentiane:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Bloom doesn't affect sniper rifles, but controllers do get additional recoil; which does affect sniper rifles. The ability to quickly make follow up shots is nice.

Friction makes flick shots a bit easier when sniping. You know what else makes flick shots waaay easier though? A mouse.

I'm pretty sure that both input methods have the same bullet magnetism, which is what you're talking about with regards to sniper rifles. If you watched the video, you'd see that he believes that mouse & keyboard actually gets more higher "initial accuracy", therefore more bullet magnetism on sniper rifles, but I'm not sure about that.

His example he used for JQK, LW and Sturm only change on controller, not on K&M.
This also doesn't go over any snipers. Which is what my OP was talking about.

12:17-13:31 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lmao, he says M&K have a higher AA but in the footage he has controller has a tighter spread in ALL examples.

Example 1 [imgur.com]
Example 2 [imgur.com]
Example 3 With Hipfire Grip [imgur.com]

He literally shows that controller has a tighter spread than M&K. Icarus grip is also not consistent enough to gather data from but even in the footage he showed controller has a tighter up and down line. His own data and testing shows that controller has a tighter, more accurate spread than M&K. Oh and this is without aiming at all.

13:45 No, he is wrong. If M&K had a higher accuracy than the examples shown would be flipped. That "cone" means nothing when you test it and it is the opposite of what you think it is. M&K had a bigger spread which means it has LESS accuracy not more ffs.

13:47 LMAO that is not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ true. M&K has less stability than controller, there are so many things to consider about that as well. With a controller all you have to do is pull down the stick, but with M&K you are not always pulling down in a perfect line unlike controller, there is also DPI which directly changes the sens and how much you need to pull down and such. Controller literally only has a certain amount of settings, each has been tested and perfected since D1. Jesus for someone who is #1 in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ world he sure knows ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about how these two systems work.

13:59 Reticle friction is to help track the target, he said it himself. The simple fact that the game does not help M&K players out at all shows that controller players get extra help by letting them not over extend on an enemy.

14:10 uhhh duh? It's a mouse, ofc compared to a controller it should be better however, the added help of AA and reticle friction that controllers get makes them better than M&K.

14:35 That is called range, and that only happens with controller, again, controllers get help while M&K get nothing. THIS IS ONLY FURTHER PROVING MY POINT!

The simple fact that he admits they artificially boost AA and accuracy with M&K but it still is out preformed by controller is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ laughable. His own tests showed tighter spread! Weapons only get "Sweet spots" on controller not on M&K which has been tested over and over again.

Finally, to wrap this whole thing up. If Drewsky, the guy in the video, says that M&K are better in every way, then why is he using a controller and dominating M&K players? Oh wait, it's because controllers can and have outclassed M&K.

Mate...

He's firing at a wall. What kind of aim assist do you think you get against a wall? You're supposed to be looking at the reticle.

RE: sweet spots - it's literally shown in the video to be effective with mouse and keyboard. What are you smoking?