Properly explaining raids.

[Myth Alric]

Anyone else notice that a lot of people are really, really bad at explaining raids in game? Usually because instead of explaining how the raid works, they explain the method people use do it, which lacks context of what is happening. Which makes things very confusing. Especially when there are parts you might not even see due to splitting into groups or what not.

It seems like taking an extra minute to explain why you do certain stuff can often save multiple attempts at doing a map, because the person catches on far quicker with a complete picture of what is happening.

[Roshambo]

Have you ever noticed how many people who speak a language are not fluent in it? Same rules with Sherpas. Even if they know what to do they maybe no ken talk gud.

Also takes different (and multiple) explanations for noobs get it.

[Shiroe (cortana)]

explain where this happened.....
IF you talking about a group from discord pc lfg then make sure its a sherpa run, bcoz those sherpa always explain it properly, although if their main language isnt english, then it might also be alot harder to understand

And heck, sometimes they even do the raid again to show you the other mechanic you missed in the 1st run bcoz of group splitting.

IF you just join a group without confirming its a sherpa run, you should except already what to do, joining a group, not knowing what to do and you dont tell them anything, they assume you already know what to do 100% and thus, they will not explain anything..

As far as mechanics, even if they explain 100% what to do, maybe one or more people still dont fully understand, in this case, they will either try explaining it again,or they start the encounter and go as far as possible so you see how it looks.


Im not saying any of those points falls on you, however i just pointed how it can be and how it can be corrected..

[Sluggerface]

You can blame content creators for that. Everytime a raid comes out there's a rush to get a guide video out, which then becomes the ubiquitous form of teaching the encounter.

Every single raid encounter is designed to teach and test a group of players a different aspect of playing the game.

Many guides do not bother diving into context or ruminate on why a particular encounter was designed the way it was.




Take the Gauntlet encounter for example:

It's a test on being able to communicate clearly with 2 different individual fireteam members, that are the designated runners, at the same time. Two players will run in the track circuit, as they run they have to call out which plates, spread in a circular motion, for the rest of the fireteam to shoot so they can keep running.

The players standing on the plates need to identify which runner is talking to them so they can shoot the correct plates. For the runners, this means not talking over eachother as to not confuse the fireteam or lead to any loss of information.

The final phase, where everybody has to run the gauntlet, is just a harder answer to same question, designed in a way where everybody has to communicate clearly with one another which orb they are going for so they don't bump into anyone.

The core principle of this encounter is being able to disseminate critical information in such a way that it doesn't conflict with anything else, leading to a loss of information and a potential wipe. It's about maintaining a rythmn.




Even Datto, who is seen as making good guides, took 10 minutes to explain this in his gauntlet video and filled it with a lot extraneous information related to minor mechanics that are by nature, intuitive to pick up on (such as punching the scions after a runner passes your plate) that pull attention away from the core tenet of the encounter.

[Myth Alric]

Well this is usually with groups who say they are okay with teaching, or forming a group and saying you are new and more experienced people join knowing that. So it isn't completely random but there is probably a difference between people willing to teach and people specifically looking to teach.

[Myth Alric]

I can see that. I remember doing scourge from the past the other day for the first time, and on the first encounter they just told me to pick up the orb and take it to the place to put it in. No one mentioned that you get a debuff that makes you unable to pick up another orb until it runs out, and that is the reason why we were taking turns picking it up in the first place.

Then in the last encounter I was a runner and they mentioned there is an exploit to get rid of the debuff and that I had to get rid of the debuff. I was really confused as to what the debuff does, why I needed to get rid of it and what you are actually supposed to do if you weren't exploiting to get around it. I was also confused about the buff in the damage phase of the boss, since I didn't take part in the underground stuff of the prior encounter(I was up top just killing things). So their explanation didn't make much sense.

Neither of these things would even require an explanation had I just went underground at any period in the stage prior, and if I had tried picking up a ball while I had the debuff active. Basically if I just played it normally it would be easy to pick up after a couple of failed tries. Also a more detailed explanation would of been fine. Though a very methodical explanation, of "You do x, then y, then z" without context make it harder to grasp.

[Shiroe (cortana)]

i can understand that tho, most people tend to do exploits if they can bcoz it makes it easier and shorter..

If you want, i can give you a twitch link to a very good sherpa, he explain stuff very clearly, and he always explain it again if you still dont fully understand, and if you still dont understand on 3rd explanation, well he just tell the group to start the encounter as a test run so people do understand how it looks and what you will do..

Although he only do levi and scourge most of the time tho...

Also, as you may not know or do,, but he also do legit riven runs which is very very rare, of all groups on the discord lfg for last wish,i have only seen about 2-5 people announcing they will do last boss legit in last wish without cheesing it

So if you want to learn a raid, this is the guy to talk to.
This is his raid info if you want to look him up https://raid.report/xb/HoldenAGrenade

[Skeleton]

Some people are able to follow instructions without needing to know every facet of how something functions.

When dealing with the short attention span of the average LFG member, it's usually better to tell them what to do, than why to do it.

[SpasticBiscuit]

knowing the encounter individually and excuting it as a team will always have growing pains. but rest assured if you find a group that plays together consistantly its much easier to be on the same page. its especially hard if you have a wide range of people with different levels of experience that maybe used to doing something a different way to your usual run.

[Myth Alric]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

Some people are able to follow instructions without needing to know every facet of how something functions.

When dealing with the short attention span of the average LFG member, it's usually better to tell them what to do, than why to do it.

The problem with following instructions without knowing why, is that there is no wiggle room if something goes wrong(like someone dying). In many cases you could cover for a teammate if you know what to do, but that is difficult if you don't know the big picture.

I don't want to sound like I am complaining too much though. Since I do typically pick things up fairly quickly and it definitely helps if you proactively ask questions. Though I have occasionally been in a few raids that took forever because clearly some people are not understanding what is going on and I think lacking all the information is part of it.

[Mister Wiggles]

My group time to time pick up someone if we are needing to fill the fireteam out and we have our raid lead that spends literally 5 minutes at the start showing the room explaining whats what and what the point of this encounter is. I personally switch off after the first 30 seconds but we've never had a person not know what they are doing, regardless of their language bias.

Sherpa group are not ALWAYS good at explaining, alot of them, especially now have a real poor ability at explaining. Due to the fact some of the raids are farmable and that there is basically ♥♥♥♥ all to do for the most part so they want to get into sherpa's.

Saying all this though, I've spent probably 30 seconds before now explaining to someone an encounter and they did it flawless. Its not how much you say, its how you say it. If people real want to understand every micro mechanic then watch a video, all the raids have a cheese of some kind, I mean look at riven..

[Myth Alric]

Well the worse I ever seen was the gauntlet. Several times I seen people have conversations along the lines of, "Okay one person will be top, and one person bottom. If they say top and your top you shoot mid, if they say mid or bottom then shoot top. If you are bottom then you always shoot bottom, unless they say bottom then you shoot mid. Oh and you have to shoot the person's on the left too. You are top for your own and your bot for them."

Umm what? That is super confusing. You can just say something like, "The guy inside is calling out what he sees light up and so the other two symbols need to be shot. For your spot, shoot the higher one that needs to be shot, and for the person on your left shoot the needed symbol he doesn't shoot."

[MOSLEY]

Some people are bad at explaining things. Some people are bad at following instructions.

[Myth Alric]

Well I don't want to blame anyone who is trying to explain things, since even just trying to help new players is a good thing and people really appreciate it. It is just my personal opinion, as a tip, people should try to give a more well rounded explanation, since I think it will help a lot of people who might get confused.

[Sluggerface]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

Well the worse I ever seen was the gauntlet. Several times I seen people have conversations along the lines of, "Okay one person will be top, and one person bottom. If they say top and your top you shoot mid, if they say mid or bottom then shoot top. If you are bottom then you always shoot bottom, unless they say bottom then you shoot mid. Oh and you have to shoot the person's on the left too. You are top for your own and your bot for them."

Umm what? That is super confusing. You can just say something like, "The guy inside is calling out what he sees light up and so the other two symbols need to be shot. For your spot, shoot the higher one that needs to be shot, and for the person on your left shoot the needed symbol he doesn't shoot."

TBH, the gauntlet is a freaking terribly designed encounter because of the plates. As I explained above, requiring both plates to be simultaneously fired upon by two fireteam members adds absolutely nothing of note to the encounter and is something you wouldn't do anywhere else besides the gauntlet.

The encounter literally works and feels better just having one person per plate with a high rpm auto rifle.

[:bestgamerchina#1最好的中國]

I will tell You from the side of somebody who sherpas from time to time.
Explaining stuff to newbies is 33/33/33.
3rd of the time they dont understand, next third they dont even listen to You, when You explain with details or get confused and loose focus. Then finnaly there is those 33% who listen and try to understand the monologue wich ends up with easier encounter.
Most sherpas just go instantly into explaining basic of mechanics and how to encounter as explaining entire mechanic wich takes around 10-15minutes to people who mostly dont care and just want to get rewards makes no sense.