Remember the days when dungeons were fun?

[rad_knight]

You remember all those fun dungeons? the ones that had reasonable mechanics that you could hop on and have fun on whim, experiment with new builds, and enjoy weather you're alone or with people that had quests to unlock an exotic? dungeons like shattered throne, grasp of averice, prophesy, or pit of heresy?

I hope not, since you're not getting another one like that if the dungeon keys are anything to go off of. hope you like 30 phasing boss, ads that spawn in groups of 10 every 15 seconds, instant kill mechanics that are bugged, RNG exotics that usually suck that are completely unreasonable to do solo despite the fact that bungie fully expects you to because that's all we're getting anymore.

I've soloed all but 3 of the dungeons and made it to the last encounter of all of them and if i never set foot in any of the dungeons duality and onwards again, it'll be too soon

[EckyThump]

Originally posted by rad_knight:

instant kill mechanics that are bugged

This killed my only real chance of a solo Duality clear, back before Loreley and Restoration got repeatedly nerfed. Those damn bells :(

But I'd, as a non-solo player, will say that I found Duality and Warlord's Ruin were plenty fun.

Pit of Heresy STILL has massive bugs, two huge, invincible, non-despawning ones in particular. Prophecy is pretty....pretty boring imo. Grasp is great! No complaints with Shattered Throne.

Old content hasn't aged well due to power creep and the proliferation of highly effective, widespread add-clear like voltshot, wave-frames, volatile, etc. I can kinda see where they're going with steps to remedy this with more enemies, but totally agree that some of them could be slowed down a little!

Spire's final boss isn't much fun but I liked the midboss and the mechanics in general.
Ghosts is a real snoozefest.
But that's just my opinion!

[Lil C]-[ew C]-[ew is ☂д☂]

I sort of remember back in 2020 when I've started playing them and they were challenging even at the first time. Only done Shattered throne and people would freak out doing the first puzzle maze.
Now...well on festival of lost, I've played prophecy and the person wanted to carry me. Told me to abuse the entrance exploit...luckly Bungie have nerfed and we had to go through like it was meant to be played without exploiting the map asthetics.

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by EckyThump:

Originally posted by rad_knight:

instant kill mechanics that are bugged

This killed my only real chance of a solo Duality clear, back before Loreley and Restoration got repeatedly nerfed. Those damn bells :(

But I'd, as a non-solo player, will say that I found Duality and Warlord's Ruin were plenty fun.

Pit of Heresy STILL has massive bugs, two huge, invincible, non-despawning ones in particular. Prophecy is pretty....pretty boring imo. Grasp is great! No complaints with Shattered Throne.

Spire's final boss isn't much fun but I liked the midboss and the mechanics in general.
Ghosts is a real snoozefest.
But that's just my opinion!

full disclosure, i haven't played pit hardly at all. i've done it once and didn't finish it.

not because it was hard, but because i was playing shadowkeep content in 2021 and just stopped caring before i got to the end. i mentioned it because i just assumed it couldn't possibly be worse than the last 4, at least from my perspective as a primarily solo player.

[EckyThump]

I can see where you're coming from as someone aiming to solo them, yeah.

[Random Gamer 1337]

It's great that Fireteam Finder's a thing now, but it is frustrating that dungeon bosses from Grasp of Avarice onward take a day and a half to kill, solo.

[Hamburglar's Last Robble]

No one said "Pepperidge Farms Remembers" - I'm disappointed, 2/10

[Horn]

Originally posted by rad_knight:

You remember all those fun dungeons? the ones that had reasonable mechanics that you could hop on and have fun on whim, experiment with new builds, and enjoy weather you're alone or with people that had quests to unlock an exotic? dungeons like shattered throne, grasp of averice, prophesy, or pit of heresy?

This is true, but do not forget that although the new dungeons have become a little more difficult, but the players have also become stronger than they were at the time of, for example, the throne or the pit. Prophecy was once considered the most difficult dungeon in the game, now it can easily be completed just by rolling your face over your keyboard.

That's why I love Duality. Despite the bugs, it's still the best dungeon they've done. The runs between stages aren't too long, the mobs are plentiful, the bosses don't have too much hp and the mechanics are interesting enough to keep you engaged.

The spire was more or less normal. I don't like the crit zone at the final boss wyvern which is too hard to hit. Ghosts are the worst thing they did among the dungeons. Why the first stage lasts 4 phases and not 3 like always? Why do I have to run 100km from the first stage to the second? Why do I have to break some shield before the bosses start taking real damage?

I don't have much to say about Ruins, I've played too little of it. But from first impressions, the average normal acceptable dungeon. Nothing more. Armor and weapons in it are boring, that's why I don't want to go back there.

[Federal]

I've solo flawlessed every dungeon on Hunter, and I have to disagree with you. A lot of the older dungeons are ones I personally don't like, as they feel way too easy like something out of a Strike, with mechanics such as "Kill Witch, pick up orb, do 3 more times, hold interact at totem" or "Kill each enemy with the sword, then dunk the orb 3 times"

I like that dungeons are leaning more to Raids than Strikes, as I think they should be engaging and with a fireteam not too hard, but solo should be a genuine challenge that makes you innovate on how you play. Instant kill mechanics like in mainly Duality (I haven't had much issue with the bells), Ghosts and Warlords can be annoying, but they add a new layer of depth to the encounter in which you have to work around, and present an actual threat to an encounter which you could just sit around and be 100% safe with. That is probably why Ghosts of the Deep is my favourite dungeon, and favourite Solo Flawless. It requires virtually constant attention and to know what you are doing, all while giving you a challenge that is honestly such a fun challenge (IMO).

As for builds, there a so many different places to test them, with things like the Legendary campaign, in strikes, GMs (if testing -20 stuff) etc. As for the RNG Exotics, doing it Solo/Solo Flawless only increases the chance you get it, you will eventually even with or without the boosts from the challenges.

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by Horn:

Originally posted by rad_knight:

You remember all those fun dungeons? the ones that had reasonable mechanics that you could hop on and have fun on whim, experiment with new builds, and enjoy weather you're alone or with people that had quests to unlock an exotic? dungeons like shattered throne, grasp of averice, prophesy, or pit of heresy?

This is true, but do not forget that although the new dungeons have become a little more difficult, but the players have also become stronger than they were at the time of, for example, the throne or the pit. Prophecy was once considered the most difficult dungeon in the game, now it can easily be completed just by rolling your face over your keyboard.

That's why I love Duality. Despite the bugs, it's still the best dungeon they've done. The runs between stages aren't too long, the mobs are plentiful, the bosses don't have too much hp and the mechanics are interesting enough to keep you engaged.

The spire was more or less normal. I don't like the crit zone at the final boss wyvern which is too hard to hit. Ghosts are the worst thing they did among the dungeons. Why the first stage lasts 4 phases and not 3 like always? Why do I have to run 100km from the first stage to the second? Why do I have to break some shield before the bosses start taking real damage?

I don't have much to say about Ruins, I've played too little of it. But from first impressions, the average normal acceptable dungeon. Nothing more. Armor and weapons in it are boring, that's why I don't want to go back there.

I'm not really refering to how difficult they were when they came out(i didn't play most of them when they came out, i started just after duality and the first dungeon i played on release was spire).
the older dungeons are definitely easier(i mean hell, shattered throne is admitadly a joke difficulty wise) but the the difficulty they have came from a much more understandable and reasonable place.

lets just compare GOA's last boss to ruins for a seconds
in GOA you have to deal with:
-killing r-m80
-not falling off the map
-a few waves of dregs that spawn every 30 or so seconds i think? maybe quicker.
-activating and collecting engrams(and not dying from them)
-not getting killed while banking at the crystal
-dealing boss damage

compared to ruins which has:
-the boss constantly shooting at you
-waves of taken psions that spawn every 15 or so seconds in waves of 10
-the taken blight things that make the ground deal damage to you when you stand on it
-not falling off the map(which is more of a threat in some parts of the arena than others)
-the two taken wizards that always spawn, and the taken turrets you need to kill
-the scorn minibosses that you need to kill for the totems
-the RNG of where the totem might spawn
-the hot potato thing with the instakill debuff you need to pass off to a scorn(which it can give you after it's already dead if the timing is right)
-and dealing damage(usually while under heavy fire since good luck killing all the enemies before DPS starts)

the GoA fight is easier, but its also a lot fairer. the ground deciding you're not allowed to stand there anymore, or your run ending because the enemy you need to punch to save yourself is already dead isn't challenging, its frustrating. and that frustration is only made worse by the fact that it takes like 30 phases to kill the boss where the GOA boss takes 2-4

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by Federal:

I've solo flawlessed every dungeon on Hunter, and I have to disagree with you. A lot of the older dungeons are ones I personally don't like, as they feel way too easy like something out of a Strike, with mechanics such as "Kill Witch, pick up orb, do 3 more times, hold interact at totem" or "Kill each enemy with the sword, then dunk the orb 3 times"

I like that dungeons are leaning more to Raids than Strikes, as I think they should be engaging and with a fireteam not too hard, but solo should be a genuine challenge that makes you innovate on how you play. Instant kill mechanics like in mainly Duality (I haven't had much issue with the bells), Ghosts and Warlords can be annoying, but they add a new layer of depth to the encounter in which you have to work around, and present an actual threat to an encounter which you could just sit around and be 100% safe with. That is probably why Ghosts of the Deep is my favourite dungeon, and favourite Solo Flawless. It requires virtually constant attention and to know what you are doing, all while giving you a challenge that is honestly such a fun challenge (IMO).

As for builds, there a so many different places to test them, with things like the Legendary campaign, in strikes, GMs (if testing -20 stuff) etc. As for the RNG Exotics, doing it Solo/Solo Flawless only increases the chance you get it, you will eventually even with or without the boosts from the challenges.

The difficulty to me is exactly the problem, because the difficulty feels largely artificial. It doesn't feel like i'm being challenged, it feels like bungie is going out of their way to see how much stuff they can cram into one encounter before they can't possibly fit in anymore. i've had way more trouble with ghosts and ruin than i ever did with prophesty and GOA, but i still think that the later 2 are much better challenges despite being technically easier. Soloing GOA was one of the first things i did in destiny(no joke, my timeline of playing this game was buying it, playing witch queen, playing beyond light, then immediately going into GOA. i hadn't even touched the playlists yet) and even at the time, when i had almost no exotics and hardly any decent weapons outside of crafted ones from witch queen i was having a good time since even though the mechanics are simple, they're enough to still be engaging without being so complex that you need an in depth guide like a raid.

dungeons, to me, shouldn't be trying to be like raids. because they're not raids, they're dungeons. they shouldn't be trying to fill the same niche as raids since raids will always fill that role better since they're higher profile, tend to have better loot, and have fully unique enemies and usually environments.

and the loadouts bit was more to say that in the older dungeons you had a lot more flexibility to change up your approach. in GOA, i've used each subclass, dozens of different weapons and exotics, close range builds, long range builds, mid range builds, basically anything i could think of that i couple potentially get to work and not all of them were great but they all could get the job done.
in duality i have used the exact same build in every single successful run i've ever done. because nothing else i've ever tried has actually had a snowball's chance in hell of working. the only time i've ever used a different build was when banner of war first came out, but that wasn't really opening up new build opens as much as it was replacing my old build that i was stuck with with a different one

[Jack of Blades]

Ngl that push beam attack on the ogre in the second encounter of Warlord's Ruin dungeon is bs and not sure how to avoid it unless you have strand with grapple or with a sword

[rad_knight]

Originally posted by Atlas:

Ngl that push beam attack on the ogre in the second encounter of Warlord's Ruin dungeon is bs and not sure how to avoid it unless you have strand with grapple or with a sword

you really just have to not jump at all. like seriously, if i could unequip my double jump for that encounter i would, you should never use it.

and some supers can save you from it, a lot of melee supers(so titans are set) and stuff like thundercrash can save you if you get knocked off. but yeah, its bogus

[NationX]

"fun" is subjective. Some i find fun, some i dont.

[Aerisana]

Never was able to do a Dungeon in this game, still haven't.

[Kylito]

Originally posted by Kazuma:

Originally posted by Horn:

but the players have also become stronger

this would be true if they didnt lock light levels to gimp us. oh hey your 1830 congrats by the way this activity will gimp you down to 1815 and all the mobs are getting power boosts

???
Dungeons don't lock LL.