Simplified explanation of why hand cannons are OP

[Platypus20]

an smg isn't meant to be able to kill at mid-range. because of this, they should be extremely powerful at short-range, especially with how much recoil is an issue on them.

assault rifles should have increased damage, strong recoil, and effective up to mid-range.

But in destiny, you've got people running around with hand cannons dominating both short and mid-range. They kill faster than smg's and assault rifles even when fully out in the open DESPITE how much ENVIRONMENT gives them an edge to begin with.

Think of the environment factor... You can hide, slightly come out, shoot, hide, slightly come out, shoot, hide, repeat. This is called "peakshooting". How is an smg or assault rifle meant to fight that? Smg's and assault rifles need a target's body to stay visible because they use a lot more bullets to get a kill while also having to deal with a continuous bouncing reticle. That bouncing reticle cannot compete against a player moving quickly in and out of cover, especially with how low damage is for smg's and assault rifles.

This imbalance is solved in games like Call of Duty because guns can shoot through different types of cover.

This balancing mechanic is called "wallbanging". However, I don't blame the devs for not having developed it into the game, it wasn't that foreseeable.

Maybe in Destiny 3 they'll develop wallbanging.

[CHAMPAGNE]

Igneous goes brrr
You still need to hit your shots tho

[Bnn1]

Still on about handcannons????

[Platypus20]

Originally posted by Ben1:

Still on about handcannons????

i like turtles

[AloofHermit37]

if you think HCs are op than be thankful you didn’t play during the other metas

[Platypus20]

Originally posted by AloofHermit37:

if you think HCs are op than be thankful you didn’t play during the other metas

maybe Marathon will be better

[Bnn1]

Originally posted by Platypus20:

I think it's also important to note that this issue isn't found in Call of Duty because their game allows for guns to shoot through different types of cover. If the game had this element, this would even out the playing field a lot more, preventing the cheese-technique of bopping in and out with a hand cannon.

If all the guns could wallbang then you would be surprised, the Handcannons have so much damage due to having such a strong projectile, if anything would wallbang without damage falloff it would be the handcannons.

So now you are in a completely different meta, because if you go on against a HC user, they would wait for you to go behind cover, injured, and would just keep tapping the wall, killing you easily.

It wouldn't make sense that HC could not penetrate but SMG could.

Meanwhile, any game where a 9mm can safely penetrate steel and concrete needs to be reworked completely, if COD really allows wallbanging with any gun through any material then little wonder why its so popular, it basically old school CS 1.6

[Platypus20]

Originally posted by Ben1:

Originally posted by Platypus20:

I think it's also important to note that this issue isn't found in Call of Duty because their game allows for guns to shoot through different types of cover. If the game had this element, this would even out the playing field a lot more, preventing the cheese-technique of bopping in and out with a hand cannon.

If all the guns could wallbang then you would be surprised, the Handcannons have so much damage due to having such a strong projectile, if anything would wallbang without damage falloff it would be the handcannons.

So now you are in a completely different meta, because if you go on against a HC user, they would wait for you to go behind cover, injured, and would just keep tapping the wall, killing you easily.

It wouldn't make sense that HC could not penetrate but SMG could.

Meanwhile, any game where a 9mm can safely penetrate steel and concrete needs to be reworked completely, if COD really allows wallbanging with any gun through any material then little wonder why its so popular, it basically old school CS 1.6

I'm not saying wallbanging shouldn't work for hand cannons. If wallbanging existed, it should work for all weapons.

But the game could be balanced a whole lot more if wallbanging existed. Also, smg's and assault rifles need damage buffs anyway, regardless of if the game has wallbanging or not. They are just too weak. And even weaker when there's no wallbanging for them to fairly compete.

[Kylito]

Originally posted by Platypus20:

Originally posted by Ben1:

If all the guns could wallbang then you would be surprised, the Handcannons have so much damage due to having such a strong projectile, if anything would wallbang without damage falloff it would be the handcannons.

So now you are in a completely different meta, because if you go on against a HC user, they would wait for you to go behind cover, injured, and would just keep tapping the wall, killing you easily.

It wouldn't make sense that HC could not penetrate but SMG could.

Meanwhile, any game where a 9mm can safely penetrate steel and concrete needs to be reworked completely, if COD really allows wallbanging with any gun through any material then little wonder why its so popular, it basically old school CS 1.6

I'm not saying wallbanging shouldn't work for hand cannons. If wallbanging existed, it should work for all weapons.

But the game could be balanced a whole lot more if wallbanging existed. Also, smg's and assault rifles need damage buffs anyway, regardless of if the game has wallbanging or not. They are just too weak. And even weaker when there's no wallbanging for them to fairly compete.

Then that would not fix the HC meta issue at all? First off, with how D2 maps are designed, there are very few thin walls or bits of cover, certain maps have almost every wall be thick.

HCs will still be strong if they added wallbanging, because they could also be spammed through walls, and while an SMG would deal pathetic damage passing through a wall, a HC's damage, even HALVED, would be well over enough to finish a player.

120 HCs would go 80-80, player runs behind cover, then hit for 40. Bam. 200 damage, 3 tap at any resil.

[Catalyst]

Originally posted by AloofHermit37:

if you think HCs are op than be thankful you didn’t play during the other metas

pulse meta was my favorite. if you thought dying in 0.7 seconds at 30 meters from a hand cannon is bad, try dying in 0.6 seconds at 45 meters from a pulse.

awesome!

[Platypus20]

Originally posted by Kylito:

Originally posted by Platypus20:

I'm not saying wallbanging shouldn't work for hand cannons. If wallbanging existed, it should work for all weapons.

But the game could be balanced a whole lot more if wallbanging existed. Also, smg's and assault rifles need damage buffs anyway, regardless of if the game has wallbanging or not. They are just too weak. And even weaker when there's no wallbanging for them to fairly compete.

Then that would not fix the HC meta issue at all? First off, with how D2 maps are designed, there are very few thin walls or bits of cover, certain maps have almost every wall be thick.

HCs will still be strong if they added wallbanging, because they could also be spammed through walls, and while an SMG would deal pathetic damage passing through a wall, a HC's damage, even HALVED, would be well over enough to finish a player.

120 HCs would go 80-80, player runs behind cover, then hit for 40. Bam. 200 damage, 3 tap at any resil.

Mate, programmers can just reduce the damage for handcannon wallbanging. Lmao

[Kylito]

Originally posted by Platypus20:

Originally posted by Kylito:

Then that would not fix the HC meta issue at all? First off, with how D2 maps are designed, there are very few thin walls or bits of cover, certain maps have almost every wall be thick.

HCs will still be strong if they added wallbanging, because they could also be spammed through walls, and while an SMG would deal pathetic damage passing through a wall, a HC's damage, even HALVED, would be well over enough to finish a player.

120 HCs would go 80-80, player runs behind cover, then hit for 40. Bam. 200 damage, 3 tap at any resil.

Mate, programmers can just reduce the damage for handcannon wallbanging. Lmao

Well, if the wallbang damage for HCs becomes even less than half damage, that would just be silly. Might as well just nerf them into the ground without bothering to add an extra mechanic.

If 120s hit for less than 40 for a headshot through walls, and an SMG or AR could hit for 10+ per bullet, then that just isn't fair, and you create an oppressive meta in the opposite direction. And then if ARs and SMGs hit for <10 damage through walls, then you wouldn't even bother trying to wallbang aside from finishing off low HP players; it would be less damage than what you deal to supers.

There's also the elephant in the room of Wish-Ender, which would either have to:

A: not wallbang at all, which goes against the "piercing" identity of the weapon
or
B: Absolutely break PvP with wallhack spam

Safe to say that PvP is unbalanced enough as is, and adding a whole new mechanic that the game isn't designed around would only make that worse.

[Bnn1]

I dont want the nonexistant HC issue solved at all.

I just find it hilarious how wallbanging would make HC even more op, especially when paired with something like Wishender.

But if wallbanging to the extend of shooting through walls and cover existed, then nobody would play anything else but Wishender due its natural insane piercing ability, and then on top the wallhax. Wallhax and insane wallbanging = nobody's safe.

[Kylito]

Originally posted by Ben1:

I dont want the nonexistant HC issue solved at all.

I just find it hilarious how wallbanging would make HC even more op, especially when paired with something like Wishender.

But if wallbanging to the extend of shooting through walls and cover existed, then nobody would play anything else but Wishender due its natural insane piercing ability, and then on top the wallhax. Wallhax and insane wallbanging = nobody's safe.

Also, if snipers could wallbang, Wish-ender shot + quick swap sniper shot means you could kill anyone at any resil with any buff at any range, through walls. Insane.

[Plata0Plomo]

Originally posted by CRUNKMASTER:

Originally posted by AloofHermit37:

if you think HCs are op than be thankful you didn’t play during the other metas

pulse meta was my favorite. if you thought dying in 0.7 seconds at 30 meters from a hand cannon is bad, try dying in 0.6 seconds at 45 meters from a pulse.

awesome!

the no time to explain and BXR meta was even worse the same than handcanon but changing the short- medium combat to medium-long with more aim assist