movement abilities and the superficial solutions at bungie. Icarus dash / SC / dodge

[󠁳⁧⁧SayDen]

HOT TAKE. I cant believe this studio worked on halo at one point.

Not only the balancing but the thought process that is going on over at bungie is absolutely ludicrous. We need some serious re tweaks.

as it stands warlocks are technically the most movement based class in the game. blink or flight + icarus dash all without having to sacrifice anything or spec atleast 100 into a stat to reduce cooldowns.

All bungie had to do was treat shoulder charge like icarus dash and either allow it to be an aspect or giving it 5 sec cooldown, not by tying it to the strength stat. this combined with the fact that you have to sacrifice your shield ability for the option to do a dash that warlocks can use every 5 seconds where as we'd have to spec 100 into resilience just to use it every 35 seconds is just asinine.

and seriously with the stomp-ee5 nerf? on a class thats supposed to be movement based, with a movement ability. hunters honestly have it the worst in this regard.

I'm by no means saying warlocks need nerfing, but bungie obviously has a favorite and there is no need for this inordinate amount of ridiculousness. at this rate just delete all movement abilities.

[Kylito]

Icarus DOES require a aspect slot, which is a big sacrifice, you either lose the buffed nades or Heat Rises. If shoulder charge was an aspect, almost no one would touch it, because that would have to replace something like Juggernaut or Knockout. The opportunity cost of an aspect slot is NOT comparable to the opportunity cost of a melee, which is why it got nerfed.

The stompees nerf was to make the exotic require more thought put into it, as it stood it was "plug and play" and provided instant benefit. Was it too far? Perhaps, but at least didn't affect PvE; Bungie has countless times made exotics useless from an overstepped nerf, because PvP is not the main focus of the game. Hunters are not the FASTEST class, rather the most MOBILE class. Warlocks/Titans have wacky movement tech, but mid-fight don't have any options, unlike hunters who can jump instantly.

[AloofHermit37]

the bungie that we know now is not the bungie that we knew that made the classics like halo we all love

[󠁳⁧⁧SayDen]

Originally posted by Kylito:

Icarus DOES require a aspect slot, which is a big sacrifice, you either lose the buffed nades or Heat Rises. If shoulder charge was an aspect, almost no one would touch it, because that would have to replace something like Juggernaut or Knockout. The opportunity cost of an aspect slot is NOT comparable to the opportunity cost of a melee, which is why it got nerfed.

if this was true then people WOULDN'T touch icarus dash either,
either warlocks need icarus dash tweaked or re-slotted as a class ability like titans grounded dodge. there would be literally no downside other than having to chose between well or dodge JUST like titans have to with dodge or shield. if people really gave a ♥♥♥♥ about it using an aspect do you think they would be using it at all.

Originally posted by Kylito:

IThe stompees nerf was to make the exotic require more thought put into it, as it stood it was "plug and play" and provided instant benefit. Was it too far? Perhaps, but at least didn't affect PvE; Bungie has countless times made exotics useless from an overstepped nerf, because PvP is not the main focus of the game. Hunters are not the FASTEST class, rather the most MOBILE class. Warlocks/Titans have wacky movement tech, but mid-fight don't have any options, unlike hunters who can jump instantly.

I never said they were the fastest class (especially NOW with strand in the game + eager edge skating which costs titans their super compared to warlocks and hunters that can just do it over and over), but a movement based class with a movement ability. as for the stompees nerf yea they sure put alot of thought into it by only making it worse and providing no upside. "plug and play" as is with most exotics that buff a non cooldown based ability. so based on that way of thinking shouldnt they nerf almost every exotic in the damn game?

warlocks dont have any in air options? then wtf is icarus dash for. oh wait its for in air movement. 0_0
hunters in air ability is to dodge straight down which costs them a class ability and titans dont have ♥♥♥♥ besides the melees they nerfed 5 times or sacrificing a shield for a mediocre dodge that you have to be grounded at all times for.

[Kylito]

Originally posted by 󠁳⁧⁧SayDen:

Originally posted by Kylito:

Icarus DOES require a aspect slot, which is a big sacrifice, you either lose the buffed nades or Heat Rises. If shoulder charge was an aspect, almost no one would touch it, because that would have to replace something like Juggernaut or Knockout. The opportunity cost of an aspect slot is NOT comparable to the opportunity cost of a melee, which is why it got nerfed.

if this was true then people WOULDN'T touch icarus dash either,
either warlocks need icarus dash tweaked or re-slotted as a class ability like titans grounded dodge. there would be literally no downside other than having to chose between well or dodge JUST like titans have to with dodge or shield. if people really gave a ♥♥♥♥ about it using an aspect do you think they would be using it at all.

Originally posted by Kylito:

IThe stompees nerf was to make the exotic require more thought put into it, as it stood it was "plug and play" and provided instant benefit. Was it too far? Perhaps, but at least didn't affect PvE; Bungie has countless times made exotics useless from an overstepped nerf, because PvP is not the main focus of the game. Hunters are not the FASTEST class, rather the most MOBILE class. Warlocks/Titans have wacky movement tech, but mid-fight don't have any options, unlike hunters who can jump instantly.

I never said they were the fastest class (especially NOW with strand in the game + eager edge skating which costs titans their super compared to warlocks and hunters that can just do it over and over), but a movement based class with a movement ability. as for the stompees nerf yea they sure put alot of thought into it by only making it worse and providing no upside. "plug and play" as is with most exotics that buff a non cooldown based ability. so based on that way of thinking shouldnt they nerf almost every exotic in the damn game?

warlocks dont have any in air options? then wtf is icarus dash for. oh wait its for in air movement. 0_0
hunters in air ability is to dodge straight down which costs them a class ability and titans dont have ♥♥♥♥ besides the melees they nerfed 5 times or sacrificing a shield for a mediocre dodge that you have to be grounded at all times for.

Icarus got a nerf already. Remember double base dashes? I can't think of any other nerf that wouldn't make it useless. Warlocks have 1 aspect on 1 class that gives viable PvP movement, stuff like shoulder charge or Stompees works on all or most subclasses.

There are a lot of exotics that require no effort to use like Stompees, but not to the same extent. When's the last time you saw foetracer in PvP? Transversive steps? Anteus wards? Stompees were FAR too dominant, even after nerfs, so Bungo I guess would rather they be too weak in PvP than to bother with them still needing nerfs.

[󠁳⁧⁧SayDen]

Originally posted by Kylito:

Icarus got a nerf already. Remember double base dashes? I can't think of any other nerf that wouldn't make it useless. Warlocks have 1 aspect on 1 class that gives viable PvP movement, stuff like shoulder charge or Stompees works on all or most subclasses.

hence why i said "warlocks need icarus dash tweaked or re-slotted as a class ability like titans/hunter dodge" and making an exotic so weak that they arent viable to see an increase in the usage of other exotics isnt a solution its a kill method hence the title of this forum post. are you seeing my point yet?

[Kylito]

Originally posted by 󠁳⁧⁧SayDen:

Originally posted by Kylito:

Icarus got a nerf already. Remember double base dashes? I can't think of any other nerf that wouldn't make it useless. Warlocks have 1 aspect on 1 class that gives viable PvP movement, stuff like shoulder charge or Stompees works on all or most subclasses.

hence why i said "warlocks need icarus dash tweaked or re-slotted as a class ability like titans/hunter dodge" and making an exotic so weak that they arent viable to see an increase in the usage of other exotics isnt a solution its a kill method hence the title of this forum post. are you seeing my point yet?

If it was a class ability, that would be too big of a nerf, unless it also gave cure/restoration or something. Bungie would rather kill an exotic than have it be oppressive, and that does have issues, but ALSO killing dash is not the answer. After the nerf a while back, dash has never felt oppressive, unlike stompees/shoulder charge which you would see constantly. This is also because warlocks are the least popular class for PvP.

[󠁳⁧⁧SayDen]

Originally posted by Kylito:

If it was a class ability, that would be too big of a nerf, unless it also gave cure/restoration or something. Bungie would rather kill an exotic than have it be oppressive, and that does have issues, but ALSO killing dash is not the answer. After the nerf a while back, dash has never felt oppressive, unlike stompees/shoulder charge which you would see constantly. This is also because warlocks are the least popular class for PvP.

lmao too big of a nerf? with that thought then hunter dodge must be the most garbage ability in the game seeing as its the only one they have. it would by no means kill dash by making it a class ability. it would also free up the aspect slot which you stated sacrifices your precious buffed nades/heat rises. you would simply have to make a choice, do you want a well or do you want to dodge. and dash can absolutely be just as oppressive if not more than shoulder charge with SC being overall worse than icarus atm. 5 second cooldown versus 8.5 second cooldown ranging to 18.5 second cooldown depending on your strength stat.

[Kylito]

Originally posted by 󠁳⁧⁧SayDen:

Originally posted by Kylito:

If it was a class ability, that would be too big of a nerf, unless it also gave cure/restoration or something. Bungie would rather kill an exotic than have it be oppressive, and that does have issues, but ALSO killing dash is not the answer. After the nerf a while back, dash has never felt oppressive, unlike stompees/shoulder charge which you would see constantly. This is also because warlocks are the least popular class for PvP.

lmao too big of a nerf? with that thought then hunter dodge must be the most garbage ability in the game seeing as its the only one they have. it would by no means kill dash by making it a class ability. it would also free up the aspect slot which you stated sacrifices your precious buffed nades/heat rises. you would simply have to make a choice, do you want a well or do you want to dodge. and dash can absolutely be just as oppressive if not more than shoulder charge with SC being overall worse than icarus atm. 5 second cooldown versus 8.5 second cooldown ranging to 18.5 second cooldown depending on your strength stat.

Hunter is NOT garbage because it reloads/gives melee. It is not a purely movement ability. If dash was as is, but you lose your class ability, would either be too strong or too weak (depending on how they went about it)

If dash is so bad, then why does every trials team not run 3x solar warlocks and instead use void titan/strand hunter? Why is warlock the least popular PvP class?

[󠁳⁧⁧SayDen]

Originally posted by Kylito:

Originally posted by 󠁳⁧⁧SayDen:

lmao too big of a nerf? with that thought then hunter dodge must be the most garbage ability in the game seeing as its the only one they have. it would by no means kill dash by making it a class ability. it would also free up the aspect slot which you stated sacrifices your precious buffed nades/heat rises. you would simply have to make a choice, do you want a well or do you want to dodge. and dash can absolutely be just as oppressive if not more than shoulder charge with SC being overall worse than icarus atm. 5 second cooldown versus 8.5 second cooldown ranging to 18.5 second cooldown depending on your strength stat.

Hunter is NOT garbage because it reloads/gives melee. It is not a purely movement ability. If dash was as is, but you lose your class ability, would either be too strong or too weak (depending on how they went about it)

If dash is so bad, then why does every trials team not run 3x solar warlocks and instead use void titan/strand hunter? Why is warlock the least popular PvP class?

with that same thought in mind wouldn't titan shield be lackluster cause it doesnt refund anything or provide you with anything other than an opportunity to save your ass (when you're not using strand). that's all hunters ability does anyway, they simply gave it an extra effect as its the most dull ability in the game. and since thats all shield does shouldn't it receive treatment? like strands lash but with the subclass element wave instead (almost making khepris useless). if this is the case then all class abilities would need a rework, including dash being re-slotted and possibly given an effect.
warlock is the least picked class because 70% of the community is garbage with them + they dont like to play warlock and instead run around like a chicken with their head cut off which is slowly but surely becoming the playstyle for warlocks too.
I have faced 3x solar dash warlocks, they are monsters. with even a sliver of competence warlocks dominate in pvp.