Renewal Grasps useless in PVP... Decent in PVE... need a tweak?

[Cryptix]

So Renewal Grasps were great when they were introduced, for PVE and PVP, but obviously they ended up being overpowered in PVP leading to a nerf, understandably.

They are still decent in PVE but are now overshadowed by some other exotics, notably FR0ST-EE5, even when buildcrafting specifically for Duskfield grenades which is specifically what R-Grasps is supposed to lean into.

As for PVP play? There is no PVP play. The nerfs destroyed PVP viability.

It seems to me that renewal grasps, in their current state, may need to either get a buff or a tweak to stay relevant. So it got me thinking of changes or buffs to maybe help the exotic out a little bit. Down below is a potential tweak to the functionality of R-Grasps that could do the exotic some justice...

This is the current description of Renewal Grasps:

Depths of Duskfield
Your Duskfield grenades have a larger effect radius. Allies inside the Duskfield take reduced damage and targets inside the area deal reduced damage.

And here is an option that might help keep them useful:

Deep into Dusk
Your grenades have a much larger effect radius. Allies inside or affected by grenades take reduced damage and targets inside or affected by grenades deal reduced damage.

Here's what this change would accomplish:

• It generalises to include all grenades.
  
• It allows synergy with other subclasses.
  
• It would increase viability in PVP (which is sorely needed)

Now, obviously this would be a buff, hell maybe too much of a buff, but with some slight corrections to compensate for the rework I think it could help keep the exotic relevant and preventing the exotic from being powercrept.

I'm not by any means saying this WILL happen or that THIS is the way to do it but its becoming clear that the exotic is being left in the dust, or should I say the dusk?

Anyway, if you took the time to read this I would love to know what you think of Renewal Grasps, both as they are currently, and what you would do to Renewal grasps if anything.

Cheers!

[Kormit the Frag]

If the exotic didnt basically triple the cooldown of duskfield, id consider it
even then, bakris is too good to pass up, as is wormhusk in pvp.

[Cryptix]

Originally posted by Kormit the Frag:

If the exotic didnt basically triple the cooldown of duskfield, id consider it
even then, bakris is too good to pass up, as is wormhusk in pvp.

True, the cooldown is pretty mad!

[Nero]

Please no.
They are in a decent spot now and there are so many other trash exotics in dire need of a rework.

They are balanced around grenades that deal no damage.
Giving them to all grenades would make them OP and hunters don‘t need ANOTHER pvp crutch

[Cryptix]

Originally posted by Nero:

Please no.
They are in a decent spot now and there are so many other trash exotics in dire need of a rework.

They are balanced around grenades that deal no damage.
Giving them to all grenades would make them OP and hunters don‘t need ANOTHER pvp crutch

It's just the Duskfield Grenades that are currently affected by the exotic. They can do damage but only if the crystal is destroyed next to a target, as far as I am aware.

I said in my original post that it should obviously be adjusted to not be OP in PVP, it's just that as it currently stands, the exotic is basically useless in PVP and having functionality outside of Duskfield grenades would do the exotic some good to help future proof it, both for PVP and PVE.

They are decent as they currently are, as you said, but only in PVE.

I'm not asking for yet another PVP crutch for Hunters but when only two exotics are being used in PVP... that's a problem. I am not against buffing and/or altering other exotics to help them out too I was just pointing to an exotic that is basically no better than using legendary armour in PVP.

I am curious though, if you were trying to balance PVP, what might you do? I know there are some crutches that are being used which should be addressed but what other exotics might you help out?

[Nero]

Originally posted by Cryptix:

Originally posted by Nero:

Please no.
They are in a decent spot now and there are so many other trash exotics in dire need of a rework.

They are balanced around grenades that deal no damage.
Giving them to all grenades would make them OP and hunters don‘t need ANOTHER pvp crutch

It's just the Duskfield Grenades that are currently affected by the exotic. They can do damage but only if the crystal is destroyed next to a target, as far as I am aware.

I said in my original post that it should obviously be adjusted to not be OP in PVP, it's just that as it currently stands, the exotic is basically useless in PVP and having functionality outside of Duskfield grenades would do the exotic some good to help future proof it, both for PVP and PVE.

They are decent as they currently are, as you said, but only in PVE.

I'm not asking for yet another PVP crutch for Hunters but when only two exotics are being used in PVP... that's a problem. I am not against buffing and/or altering other exotics to help them out too I was just pointing to an exotic that is basically no better than using legendary armour in PVP.

I am curious though, if you were trying to balance PVP, what might you do? I know there are some crutches that are being used which should be addressed but what other exotics might you help out?

The debuff of the stasis slow also affects weapon performance which can decide the outcome of a gunfight on its own and then you have the 25% damage debuff from the exo on top. (plus 5% if you stand inside. Thats free 30% DR for close range encounters)
You also get an increased radius thats stacks with the aspect for enhanced stasis nades for even more. Plus you can shoot the crystal from the enhanced grenade for extra damage.

Its in a good spot right now, anything more will make it OP.
If a huge debuff and more aoe on a grenade that can shut down an entire capture point is not enough to make you better than with legendary gear then you simply don't know how to use your tools.
Its also thematically aligned with duskfields. Imagine if warlocks could pair starfire protocol with vortex grenades.......


Young ahamkaras, wormhusk, bakris, stompees, speedloaders, graviton forfeit all work. Even liars handshake works if you know how to play it. (can kill a titan in its bubble)

Compare that to warlock: ophidians or transversives, almost everything else is basically a handicap or odd choice like astrocytes

Its time that titans and warlocks get more pvp diversity because hunters had more than enough busted stuff for years.
Maybe make apotheosis veil useful for once and we can talk...

[Cryptix]

Originally posted by Nero:

Originally posted by Cryptix:

It's just the Duskfield Grenades that are currently affected by the exotic. They can do damage but only if the crystal is destroyed next to a target, as far as I am aware.

I said in my original post that it should obviously be adjusted to not be OP in PVP, it's just that as it currently stands, the exotic is basically useless in PVP and having functionality outside of Duskfield grenades would do the exotic some good to help future proof it, both for PVP and PVE.

They are decent as they currently are, as you said, but only in PVE.

I'm not asking for yet another PVP crutch for Hunters but when only two exotics are being used in PVP... that's a problem. I am not against buffing and/or altering other exotics to help them out too I was just pointing to an exotic that is basically no better than using legendary armour in PVP.

I am curious though, if you were trying to balance PVP, what might you do? I know there are some crutches that are being used which should be addressed but what other exotics might you help out?

The debuff of the stasis slow also affects weapon performance which can decide the outcome of a gunfight on its own and then you have the 25% damage debuff from the exo on top. (plus 5% if you stand inside. Thats free 30% DR for close range encounters)
You also get an increased radius thats stacks with the aspect for enhanced stasis nades for even more. Plus you can shoot the crystal from the enhanced grenade for extra damage.

Its in a good spot right now, anything more will make it OP.
If a huge debuff and more aoe on a grenade that can shut down an entire capture point is not enough to make you better than with legendary gear then you simply don't know how to use your tools.
Its also thematically aligned with duskfields. Imagine if warlocks could pair starfire protocol with vortex grenades.......


Young ahamkaras, wormhusk, bakris, stompees, speedloaders, graviton forfeit all work. Even liars handshake works if you know how to play it. (can kill a titan in its bubble)

Compare that to warlock: ophidians or transversives, almost everything else is basically a handicap or odd choice like astrocytes

Its time that titans and warlocks get more pvp diversity because hunters had more than enough busted stuff for years.
Maybe make apotheosis veil useful for once and we can talk...

I agree that the damage resistance gained and the damage reduction to enemies is good for the exotic but there is now a massive cooldown alongside it which makes utilisation rare. On top of that, it basically forces a specific type of playstyle that's simply not effective in todays sandbox. A good amount of other exotics far outperform, both in effectiveness and in frequency. There is no real push to use them.

Also your point ties into what I said in my last two posts regarding adjustment of the exotic; needing to be balanced accordingly if generalisation across other grenade types.

My change to the exotic is basically just asking for more synergy and more playstyles.

Your point about the theme of the exotic... yeah, while I do agree thematically it makes sense to keep them tied to duskfield grenades, FR0ST-EE5 can literally fill the same role except do it much better. Plus, stasis hunters basically all run one build and it isn't even that great.

I feel like you were being a little disingenuous when listing off powerful PVP exotics as both warlock and titans have been absolutely dominating PVP lately, thanks to their respective builds and exotics.

Obviously there will be some exotics for all three classes that are better than others and I do agree that the weaker ones need to be addressed, but I don't think ignoring the lower middle ones is a good idea either. Everything should be viable.