WHY are most pvp maps in this game so bad?

[Azor]

how and why

[Comissar person[FIN]]

ask activision to make the game cod like and bungie wanted it to have tiny touch of halo and it GOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and since everyone has excuse me i know i suck but hey here is my i win button.

[Jaguar1973]

The PVP Maps have become bad since they boxed Red War, Osiris and Warmind and for the short term (I assume) removed some planets and such where good PVP was usually found to be had.

My take on it that is, but you would be better off asking the Makers of the game as to why only they will know the true answer. What everyone else says is just their opinions and suspicions.

[fwwm]

D2 maps were designed around 4v4 modes, 6v6 came later on, but the map sizes and spawns are sometimes pretty bad for 6v6 modes, hence why you get a lot of spawn camping and no real longer ranged maps

[Azor]

i'll have to clarify and correct myself since i've thought more about it since creating this thread
some, not most, maps are awful. it feels like most are because it feels worse than awful due to bad design and bad lobby balacing
lack of long range is not what makes some of them bad

DEAD CLIFFS
what could be a decent map with a nice mix of long range, mid range and close range encounters is ruined by an awful spawn at point A that leads to spawn camping and powerplay / hunt quickly.

CONVERGENCE
also ruined by spawn points, except this time the problem is it's away from everything. You spend more time running than shooting in this map even if you're farming because you'll have to run all the way to the other spawn point when it flips.

THE ANOMALY
Two issues: 1st control point B is too hard to take because it is at the center of the map and is exposed to nearly every single angle, so when one team eventually takes it the match tends to snowball. 2nd it's mostly close quarters so this maps end up being about whoever has the better shotgun RNG

BANNERFALL
Every angle is exposed to a long range point, except dark. Controlling middle gives you too much advantage as it gives lets you dominate every choke point the enemy will want to go through. If you enjoy getting killed from across the map every time, this is the map for you.

EXODUS BLUE
Too much clutter, props everywhere covering every angle makes it annoying to play at.

TWILIGHT GAP
Same as Exodus Blue, but now with increased heights!

tl;dr
clutter, bad spawn points, unbalanced control points, snowball design and poor balance over close-mid-long range encounters makes those maps bad.

[Azor]

Sucks that they made 6v6 the primary pvp mode then

[Azor]

Originally posted by Stock Image Snake:

Originally posted by Azor:

Sucks that they made 6v6 the primary pvp mode then

They didn't though. The primary modes are 4v4 Elimination and 3v3 Trials.

People just flood in to Control because people enjoy the chaos and the fact that they can just drop in to do bounties or try out a build without having to think about it. Control is the casual mode. Iron Banner is the slightly less casual casual mode.

elimination is a tiny circle in crucible playlist that few people play
trials is only avaiable in weekends and is boring as f and still is unplayable without a fireteam even with the recent changes
survival is 3v3 where you match with the same people over and over

quickplay control is a giant circle in the middle of the crucible screen

Iron Banner is 6 v 6

[Asgaeroth]

You're asking why Bungie made horrible maps? These are the same people that moved forward with sunsetting armor and sunsetting content even though it severely negatively impacts so many people and has permanently damaged their brand. Bungie is not capable of making good decisions, they have a saboteur at the helm. This shines through in their map designs, probably because the saboteur behind all the other horrible decisions made sure to hire the worst map designer they could find.

[RaginSam]

D2 vanilla maps are probably my favorites.

[Azor]

Originally posted by Stock Image Snake:

Originally posted by Azor:

elimination is a tiny circle in crucible playlist that few people play
trials is only avaiable in weekends and is boring as f and still is unplayable without a fireteam even with the recent changes
survival is 3v3 where you match with the same people over and over

quickplay control is a giant circle in the middle of the crucible screen

Iron Banner is 6 v 6

Glory is the intended "ranked" mode that maps are balanced around.
Trials is the #2 most populated activity in the game every time it's available, topped only by people idling in the tower and in patrol zones. Just because you aren't good enough to handle things solo doesn't mean other people can't.

Just because a large number of terrible players only play Control doesn't mean that smaller team modes weren't the intended main mode of competitive play.

You wanted an answer, you got the answer.

"Glory is the "ranked" mode that maps are balanced around"
then why did they renamed it from Competitive to Survival? ""Ranked"", right?

"Trials is the #2 most populated activity in the game every time it's available"
and yet I get matched with 0.2 kda players every time I tried playing trials solo.

"Just because you aren't good enough to handle things solo doesn't mean other people can't."
How is that relevant? 1% of players can do that. Those who played pvp in game for several years or play 20 hours a day.

[Moon Helldiver]

Originally posted by Azor:

how and why

I will try to explain as best as I can, hope someone agree with me or let me know if they see it differently.

The problem are not the maps, but how they are used.
They all are designed for core 6v6 (used to be 4v4) activities with basic 3 point objectives. So far so good!

The problem comes out when they try to put those 12 men maps into profiled competitive activities (trials and survive) that have no objectives, are basically team death match and are for 3v3 ie. 6 people. When you scale down from 12 to 6 you are left with those huge open spaces, pointless line of sight blockers and etc. Javelin and Endless Vale still works for 3v3, but maps like Fragment are absolute bonkers. This changes the play style. Widows Court for example forced everyone to drop Shot Guns and HC and spam Scouts, Pulses, Bows etc. In 6v6 you can pull anything, but in Trials you are forced to stick with what the map demands. This pisses off a lot of people.

Main issue for me is that regardless of the map sizes D2 PvP offers nothing different than just "team death match" with some objectives. This is extremely boring game play that quickly gets old.

[Azor]

Originally posted by Moon Atreides:

Main issue for me is that regardless of the map sizes D2 PvP offers nothing different than just "team death match" with some objectives. This is extremely boring game play that quickly gets old.

I actually enjoy deathmatch so some maps could be much much better if there were no control points at all. Just deathmatch. I think it's called clash?

[Papa Nurgle]

Originally posted by Stock Image Snake:

Originally posted by Azor:

"Glory is the "ranked" mode that maps are balanced around"
then why did they renamed it from Competitive to Survival? ""Ranked"", right?

"Trials is the #2 most populated activity in the game every time it's available"
and yet I get matched with 0.2 kda players every time I tried playing trials solo.

"Just because you aren't good enough to handle things solo doesn't mean other people can't."
How is that relevant? 1% of players can do that. Those who played pvp in game for several years or play 20 hours a day.

You are literally coming up with any excuse to start an argument where there is none.

You asked a question, I answered your question. You don't have to like the answer, but it IS the answer.

Thread over.

Your only response is to call people bad just because they point out a glaring flaw of the game. Get out of the basement.

[Moon Helldiver]

Originally posted by Azor:

Originally posted by Moon Atreides:

Main issue for me is that regardless of the map sizes D2 PvP offers nothing different than just "team death match" with some objectives. This is extremely boring game play that quickly gets old.

I actually enjoy deathwatch so some maps could be much much better if there were no control points at all. Just deathwatch. I think it's called clash?

Objectives or no objectives some maps are clearly designed by someone who never played pvp game in their lives. For example the heavy spawn for comp/trial on Burnout for unknown reason is facing A Spawn clearly giving super advantage to the team who spawns on A. High tier Trials player will argue that you can throw a grenade to phase them out, but it is still super meh. In momentum they designed the heavy spawn in a clever way so it switches between spawns, but for competitive lots maps are like that... Other maps does not look like they belong into pvp. Twilight Gap would make a great Lost Sector or story mission, but for pvp....

[Emurinus]

The biggest problem is that map sizes are now too small for 6v6, and unfortunately, Bungie has refused to acknowledge it. There needs to be larger maps made to accommodate 12 players.

[Azor]

Originally posted by Emurinus:

The biggest problem is that map sizes are now too small for 6v6, and unfortunately, Bungie has refused to acknowledge it. There needs to be larger maps made to accommodate 12 players.

or they remove 6v6 altogether and swap them for a 4v4 team deathmatch or something. I would be ok with either option