Increase Damage for Hawkmoon, and Rework the perk.

[Snow Miser]

Hawkmoon is kind of disappointing, it requires you to consistently hit head-shots in order to get it up to 7x stacks of paracausal charge. In PvP the thing isn't an option due to 120's being naturally superior, and the sights being a little bit icky sometimes. They should buff the damage lower stacks do, and the perk should remain until you reload your weapon (So the catalyst is actually useful besides the 9th round)

In PvE it's an OK option, however compared to things like Outbreak, Anarchy, Ace, DMT, Xeno, Witherhoard, etc, there's 0 reason whatsoever to use it sadly, I personally believe it should have the perk reworked: Buff the magazine to 11, have the perk consume all remaining rounds when you reach 7x OR you hold R to use the amount of charges you have currently, and do damage. You still hunt out the precision hits/kills to get the charge, but it's more forgiving.

[Snow Miser]

引用自 Kethriss：

Hawkmoon is one of the most disgusting PvE exotics and is regularly used to brute force DPS check mechanics. If you can’t consistently land precision shots with a hand cannon, that’s your fault, not the gun. Being able to chain Pracausal Charge and then land a 100,000+ damage shot against things that don’t have resistances and 40-60k against things that do every single mag on a kinetic hand cannon is absolutely brutal, and getting a roll with Opening Shot gives you immediately one of the best PvE primaries in the game.

Alrighty, a little fact check for you here: It doesn't do 100k damage, UNLESS! you have: A well, 1 charged with light mods, and 7 charges, and a divinity. Your required to be a warlock, have the available charged of light mods, gather 7 charges of paracausal without any misfires, and on top of that have another exotic... wonderful! And even if you run a team of 5 hawkmoons vs tankis (For example) You'll only get him halfway, come that to list exotics above and... you can see the major difference. Fun fact: Izanagi's Burden does nearly 2x the damage with the listed damage requirements above, at 138k.

At 7 stacks of charges, you do roughly 74k damage against a boss, at 6 charges you do... 47k worth of damage, without mods. Meanwhile, the Izanagi's burden (catalyst) does 124k without the charged of light mods. Meaning, that the Izanagi's Burden (Catalyst) does a MUCH better job at damage, while it takes you longer to rack up those precision charges for launching that one shot on the hawkmoon, you could probably get 1 1/2 of an Izanagi's Burden 4x for better damage. Let's also mention how the Catalyst is COMPLETELY USELESS due to the perk deactivating on the last shot... meaning you won't get a stability, handling, or reload bonus once you fire that last shot.

It NEEDS to be more forgiving, it requires you to hunt out 7 precision hits/kills with a 140 handcannon that over relies on hand cannon aim assist, and will make it near useless if you miss ONE (JUST ONE) of those shots, when you have much superior options to go with, like heritage, Izanagi's, Outbreak, and hell even DMT is better due to it being forgiving, and having decent damage once you get those stacks up. It doesn't even 1 shot champions for christ's sake, you need to bring along an extra slug to finish them off.

So, in the end we have a handcannon that (currently) has less usage this season than sunshot in PvE, despite it being a PvE based weapon that has inferior damage to multiple exotics that could replace it. A handcannon that require you to be pretty much perfect in order to do decent damage, Has you over rely on aim assist to be halfway decent... yeah, that's "Disgusting PvE Exotic" for you!

[erdelf]

I mean, yeah if you are comparing a primary exotic to specials and heavies... yeah it will come up short. It's a reliable primary exotic, which as usual deals with mobs and majors.

[Snow Miser]

引用自 erdelf：

I mean, yeah if you are comparing a primary exotic to specials and heavies... yeah it will come up short. It's a reliable primary exotic, which as usual deals with mobs and majors.

It's actually beaten by outbreak in terms of damage (solo, mind you :P) and isn't a great weapon for champions. I'm comparing it to Izanagi's burden because that's pretty much the only instant damage primary slot weapon there is to compare to, anyhow.

[erdelf]

Outbreak's damage output is extremely variable. I wonder what numbers you took for that comparison.
And well, comparing a HC to a high caliber sniper rifle.. yeah it will suck.

[MOSLEY]

When comparing to izanagi's burden you need to rememmber that you're commparing a primary ammo weapon to a special ammo weapon.

Especially given how many great legendary special and heavy options there are, I think hawkmoon is in a pretty solid spot right now.

[fwwm]

it's fine how it is. I'd be surprised if in the coming months we don't get either a nerf to 120's or a buff to 140's, in which cases Hawkmoon will be a pretty strong option in pvp

[trise]

Bungie doesn't read forums

[Snow Miser]

引用自 MOSLEY：

When comparing to izanagi's burden you need to rememmber that you're commparing a primary ammo weapon to a special ammo weapon.

Especially given how many great legendary special and heavy options there are, I think hawkmoon is in a pretty solid spot right now.

Yes, however what Is hawkmoon for? Killing bosses, and in terms of killing those bosses... it lacks, it doesn't do anywhere near the same kind of damage as Outbreak or Izanagi's burden for bosses, and requires MUCH greater requirements to be filled then both of those weapons. So it begs the question, why use a weapon that is A). Weaker than other options, and B). Has stricter requirements.

I'm not asking it to hit like Izanagi's Burden or Outbreak, I'm asking for 1). The gun to be more forgiving, and maybe somewhat useful in PvP, 2). For less stacks to do MORE damage, rather than a near 30k damage drop in 7 to 6 stacks of charge.

[MOSLEY]

引用自 Snow Miser：

引用自 MOSLEY：

When comparing to izanagi's burden you need to rememmber that you're commparing a primary ammo weapon to a special ammo weapon.

Especially given how many great legendary special and heavy options there are, I think hawkmoon is in a pretty solid spot right now.

Yes, however what Is hawkmoon for? Killing bosses, and in terms of killing those bosses... it lacks, it doesn't do the same kind of damage as Outbreak or Izanagi's burden for bosses, and requires MUCH greater requirements to be filled then both of those weapons. So it begs the question, why use a weapon that is A). Weaker than other options, and B). Has stricter requirements.

It's a primary weapon. It is absolutely not for killing bosses. It's for killing red bar trash enemies and has the bonus effect of being pretty good against majors when you get the perk stacked up.

Your special and heavy weapons are for killing bosses.

[Snow Miser]

引用自 MOSLEY：

It's a primary weapon. It is absolutely not for killing bosses. It's for killing red bar trash enemies and has the bonus effect of being pretty good against majors when you get the perk stacked up.

Your special and heavy weapons are for killing bosses.

Then... why not equip a legendary hand cannon or ANOTHER primary exotic to do so? For example, ACE is incredibly better for Ad clear than hawkmoon will ever be, with it's dragonfly + Killclip combo, you'll instantly remove Ads. Or! you could use something like Palindrome, that has a better perk pool than hawkmoon. IF it was for Ad clear, then why would they have a instant massive damage perk added to it?

[R A Z E R]

It's actually a pretty solid PvE exotic currently with some of the highest burst damage in the game.. Yeah izanagi is better but requires special ammo while hawk uses primary ammo. If you know that a champion is around a corner with a bunch of red ads before it, simply kill all the reds and then one/two shot a champion with it (Works best after champ is stunned)..

Is hawk better than some other weapons in the game? No.. Is it a solid choice? Yes. I use it sometimes when i feel like it, even though i'd rather use anarchy most of the time due it's utility.


PvP wise, it's as good as the player using it is her/himself. High risk high reward weapon for any PvP mode. Yeah 120's are generally better but that's mostly for longer range.. In the range of a 140, a 120 will lose a lot.. But it pretty much all depends on how good the player using the gun is.

[MOSLEY]

引用自 Snow Miser：

引用自 MOSLEY：

It's a primary weapon. It is absolutely not for killing bosses. It's for killing red bar trash enemies and has the bonus effect of being pretty good against majors when you get the perk stacked up.

Your special and heavy weapons are for killing bosses.

Then... why not equip a legendary hand cannon or ANOTHER primary exotic to do so? For example, ACE is incredibly better for Ad clear than hawkmoon will ever be, with it's dragonfly + Killclip combo, you'll instantly remove Ads. Or! you could use something like Palindrome, that has a better perk pool than hawkmoon. IF it was for Ad clear, then why would they have a instant massive damage perk added to it?

Because none of those weapons can chunk champions/majors as well as being able to clear ads.

[Snow Miser]

引用自 MOSLEY：

Because none of those weapons can chunk champions/majors as well as being able to clear ads.

Hawkmoon, as I've said, Isn't very good for dealing damage against champs/majors, when compared to weapons that ARE MADE for dealing damage. Hawkmoon is a handcannon that tries to mimic the best parts of an Ad clear weapon, and a champ damaging weapon... but in the end, sucks at both. Hawkmoon sucks at clearing Ads, it's on the same level (if not worse) of a random roll 140, and when it comes to damage... lacks behind multiple other options you have, Heritage, Izanagi's, Outbreak (Which is better for both ad clear and champs) and etc.

[fwwm]

引用自 Kethriss：

I don't know how else to say it beyond "you quite literally do not know what you are talking about and are putting out abysmal information because you, personally, are bad at using a weapon."

I mean you literally couldn't be more wrong about the below statement, but go off I guess

引用自 Kethriss：

Hawkmoon also isn’t meant to be a PvP gun in the first place, so it’s efficiency in PvP isn’t even up for debate.y.

[fwwm]

引用自 Kethriss：

引用自 hemddd：

I mean you literally couldn't be more wrong about the below statement, but go off I guess

Because it’s not, not in the current meta at least and I’ll admit I should have followed up with that. The current fastest TTK with primaries is typically three-tap scouts or 120’s. Hawkmoon just doesn’t keep up with anything with a similar TTK, and it’s biggest benefit in being able to 1-shot supers is reliant on chaining kills/precision hits prior. If you have the skill to slaughter people with it, you’ll be slaughtering a lot more if you rolled an Iggy or something similar.

it's a kinetic hand cannon that exclusively rolls pvp perks, reprised from the D1 version which was a Crucible favourite; this gun was designed for pvp. doesn't matter how popular you think it is, that is its primary design function.

it's ad clearing potential pales in comparison to any bog standard high rate of fire weapon such as an SMG, Auto or Machine Gun, or something such as Salvager's Salvo, one of the actual best ad clearing weapons Bungie has ever made, something Hawkmoon can't hold a candle to, and in difficult or end game content, using it as your exotic pick over things like Anarchy, Xeno or Lament is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. Hawkmoon will never be used in grandmaster nightfall for example.