Sunsetting was a huge mistake

[N0REGARD4LIFE]

Doesn't seem like there's enough loot to take the place of all of the stuff they crippled power wise, and some of the stuff is still in the game but you gotta grind for the good rolls again lol. Makes 0 sense. That's Bungie though.

[Illusive Soul]

K-9 původně napsal:

i do not understand that you can buy Legendary weapons near the vault at power level 1060 max lots of people worked hard to get them weapons now are useless, i would have thought Bungie would make us buy them with silver if bungie had any brains they would have made us buy them with silver

are the roll random ? if it was Random,F it Bungie,wasted alot of time grinding random roll on other activities.

[Bluemenkranz]

ネバーギブアップ！ původně napsal:

Leliel původně napsal:

I want my Bygones back, my Redrix, my Parcel of Stardust, my Blast Furnace, my Kindled Orchid, my Bugout Bag & Outlast and my damned No Feelings.

i think that works pretty well on PVP that dont have Light level advantges.

I want them for PvE.

[ShatteredPumpkin]

N0REGARD4LIFE původně napsal:

Doesn't seem like there's enough loot to take the place of all of the stuff they crippled power wise, and some of the stuff is still in the game but you gotta grind for the good rolls again lol. Makes 0 sense. That's Bungie though.

yet everyone still plays and grinds for new gear XD

[Illusive Soul]

Leliel původně napsal:

ネバーギブアップ！ původně napsal:

i think that works pretty well on PVP that dont have Light level advantges.

I want them for PvE.

Rip for you.

[s0laris]

Skeleton původně napsal:

I'm not saying that every single weapon in every expansion has to hit 20% usage. The point is that people did consistently drop their Pinnacles to use weapons from each expansion. I'd say that Champion mods did more to curb Pinnacle weapon use, because there were seasons where we didn't have Anti-Barrier SMG, and Izanagi/Eriana's Vow were more valuable in the Special slot.

Also, considering that this game is mostly co-op, I have no idea why teammates killing things faster is even seen as a bad thing. Aren't these the same people that complain about their "power fantasy" being held back? Weird.

Killing faster is not a problem in a premade group. But when you are doing some bounties or trying to max a catalyst it becomes a struggle to get kills.

Yes, when the seasonal mods were not favoring the previously mentioned pinnacles, we drop for example Recluse. But we never really dropped Mountaintop. No, not every weapon should hit 20% usage, but those that do are a problem. And this sunsetting removes a lot of those, especially Mountaintop.

Skeleton původně napsal:

I'm going to let you in on a secret.
That example with machine guns?
It isn't the only instance where there's a hole in the existing loot pool. Look at Bows. Or special Grenade Launchers. Beyond that, there are dozens of missing archetype/element combinations now. Precision hand cannons. Kinetic shotguns. Energy scout rifles. And more. Which is the actual problem with sunsetting - you either have one option for your preferred weapon type, or you have no options. The complete opposite of variety.

Having no void MG at all is a genuine hole in the loot table. But precision hand cannons? We got at least 3 options. Kinetic shotguns? 3 options. Cannot comment on scouts, its a weapon type i dislike. But bows? Over the past few seasons we had access to a bow from valentines, bow from IB, bow last season. Bow in both Last Wish and Garden. And now we got a new bow in Beyond Light. Personally i am using Trinity Ghoul in most of my loadouts if i am farming, if i drop it, i have an Accrued Redemption instead, i really like bows. And there are good exotic options, for example Leviathan's Breath consistently finds its way into our nightfall fights because it messes up unstoppables.

Im not sure we have the same understanding of "options". In my book option is if i can pick at least one weapon type for a slot. Having say 8 precision hand cannons means i got 7 im hardly using or dismantle upon receiving. Warframe is a good example where there are tons of weapons and 90% is not used. Even though everything works there because weapons are that overpowered.

[Rogress (UA)]

I've got my fav gun in Forsaken and it was just a simple Trackless Waste SMG and now I cant use it and it does not have a successor to it. I'll be completely pissed if they wont add a smg that is a successor to Trackless Waste and has 900rpm with same control and feel. SMGs are forgotten and I absolutely hate it.

Also, I hate PvP in general and Gambit too but a little bit less. I don't care about PvP balance since I don't play it and I just want a huge variety of guns to play with(and Bungie is pissing me off by sunsetting guns that I like).

That's a perspective from a point of view of a person who wants to like the game and does not do PvP whatsoever.

[s0laris]

Rogress (UA) původně napsal:

I've got my fav gun in Forsaken and it was just a simple Trackless Waste SMG and now I cant use it and it does not have a successor to it. I'll be completely pissed if they wont add a smg that is a successor to Trackless Waste and has 900rpm with same control and feel. SMGs are forgotten and I absolutely hate it.

Escape Velocity.

[Kobalobasileus]

Mez Koo původně napsal:

N0REGARD4LIFE původně napsal:

I hardly ever touch crucible so your crutch comments absolutely do not apply to me. Try again though.

Mountaintop/recluse is just as much of a pve crutch as a pvp crutch.

Why are pro-sunset trolls constantly harping on these? I don't even have them because I never play Crucible. But I'm pissed that my Trackless Waste, Dragonfly/Explosive Heads Subtle Calamity, 21% Delirium, Hammerhead, Wendigo, and Warden's Law (to name a few) are worthless now. And the argument that you "can still use sunset gear in non-endgame content" is bunk, since even simple Strikes require LL 1100 to not get one-shot.

[eN]

Mez Koo původně napsal:

Plenty of loot, you just need to go find it and there is more coming in a week, get over losing your crutch weapons.

If someone likes using the same few weapons who cares? Let them? How does it affect you lol

[Skeleton]

s0laris původně napsal:

Yes, when the seasonal mods were not favoring the previously mentioned pinnacles, we drop for example Recluse. But we never really dropped Mountaintop. No, not every weapon should hit 20% usage, but those that do are a problem. And this sunsetting removes a lot of those, especially Mountaintop.

You do realise that in a sandbox where there's only one option for a hand cannon, shotgun, or sniper rifle archetype, that the one option is going to reach similarly high usage, right? Since it's the only option?

That's not variety. Variety is having multiple options for each possible weapon/archetype/element permutation available.

s0laris původně napsal:

Having no void MG at all is a genuine hole in the loot table. But precision hand cannons? We got at least 3 options. Kinetic shotguns? 3 options. Cannot comment on scouts, its a weapon type i dislike. But bows?

Accrued Redemption, Whispering Slab, and Biting Winds are all kinetic. The Vow you mentioned was sunset. There is no void bow.
Scout rifles? No arc or solar.
SMGs? No void.
Start narrowing down the categories by looking at archetypes, and you'll find more holes. When I mentioned precision hand cannons, I was referring to the lack of a solar option. Kinetic shotguns are also missing a representative.

And do mind that some of the "available" options can no longer be acquired, thanks to the seasonal model. So the existing pool can be even smaller, depending on which seasons you played.

s0laris původně napsal:

Im not sure we have the same understanding of "options". In my book option is if i can pick at least one weapon type for a slot. Having say 8 precision hand cannons means i got 7 im hardly using or dismantle upon receiving.

"Options" is a plural word. Not singular. If you can pick one weapon for a slot, you have one option. If each precision hand cannon does something different, like Seventh Seraph spawning Warmind Cells, Service Revolver being able to roll Rapid Hit/Swashbuckler, and a few others to cover different elements, they are not interchangeable and each have a niche.

Personally, I don't consider an energy weapon to be interchangeable with a kinetic one. And I don't consider a rapid-fire frame to be interchangeable with a high-impact type. There is a huge difference in the behaviour of a precision fusion rifle and the new aggressive type. It goes beyond simply having *a* hand cannon or two to use. There should be at least 12 - one of each element, and in each archetype - and ideally 24, so that you can choose one with your preferred perks after filtering through the type of weapon you prefer.

Because as I said above, variety is having multiple options for each possible weapon/archetype/element permutation available.

[xenolego]

Skeleton původně napsal:

s0laris původně napsal:

Yes, when the seasonal mods were not favoring the previously mentioned pinnacles, we drop for example Recluse. But we never really dropped Mountaintop. No, not every weapon should hit 20% usage, but those that do are a problem. And this sunsetting removes a lot of those, especially Mountaintop.

You do realise that in a sandbox where there's only one option for a hand cannon, shotgun, or sniper rifle archetype, that the one option is going to reach similarly high usage, right? Since it's the only option?

That's not variety. Variety is having multiple options for each possible weapon/archetype/element permutation available.

s0laris původně napsal:

Having no void MG at all is a genuine hole in the loot table. But precision hand cannons? We got at least 3 options. Kinetic shotguns? 3 options. Cannot comment on scouts, its a weapon type i dislike. But bows?

Accrued Redemption, Whispering Slab, and Biting Winds are all kinetic. The Vow you mentioned was sunset. There is no void bow.
Scout rifles? No arc or solar.
SMGs? No void.
Start narrowing down the categories by looking at archetypes, and you'll find more holes. When I mentioned precision hand cannons, I was referring to the lack of a solar option. Kinetic shotguns are also missing a representative.

And do mind that some of the "available" options can no longer be acquired, thanks to the seasonal model. So the existing pool can be even smaller, depending on which seasons you played.

s0laris původně napsal:

Im not sure we have the same understanding of "options". In my book option is if i can pick at least one weapon type for a slot. Having say 8 precision hand cannons means i got 7 im hardly using or dismantle upon receiving.

"Options" is a plural word. Not singular. If you can pick one weapon for a slot, you have one option. If each precision hand cannon does something different, like Seventh Seraph spawning Warmind Cells, Service Revolver being able to roll Rapid Hit/Swashbuckler, and a few others to cover different elements, they are not interchangeable and each have a niche.

Personally, I don't consider an energy weapon to be interchangeable with a kinetic one. And I don't consider a rapid-fire frame to be interchangeable with a high-impact type. There is a huge difference in the behaviour of a precision fusion rifle and the new aggressive type. It goes beyond simply having *a* hand cannon or two to use. There should be at least 12 - one of each element, and in each archetype - and ideally 24, so that you can choose one with your preferred perks after filtering through the type of weapon you prefer.

Because as I said above, variety is having multiple options for each possible weapon/archetype/element permutation available.

It's not even just energy and kinetic types too that's important. Different weapons look and feel different and in a game like Destiny where the "feel" of the shooting is one of the selling points, having different flavors that better suit your palette are very important. For example, I had how Spare Rations feels because I dislike the firing noise and how it affects the "feel" of the gun when shooting it. If it was the only handcannon available, I would be very unhappy. I dislike how Waking Vigil looks for example as well, and would prefer not to use it as there were other options in the past (now the options are different, 150s don't exist but I can't think of an energy 140 that hasn't been sunset that I like the look of).

[sel]

Mez Koo původně napsal:

Plenty of loot, you just need to go find it and there is more coming in a week, get over losing your crutch weapons.

yea. because having only machine gun in the entire game and removing over 75% of the gear is fine. lets just call it a crutch though.

[Vahnkiljoy]

I'm mad about sunsetting because all my hard earned BA weapons are now show pieces, which pisses me off, I'll miss you my Hammerhead that came out fantastic from the mission to gain it. As well as all my sidearms/smgs and other BA weapons I loved using, as well as bows, I will literally lose everything because of this garbage only to keep the exotics as Bungie was kind enough to let us keep SOMETHING I guess.

[The_Mess]

Eh, I just sharded all the sunset stuff so I could have enough cores etc to upgrade replacement gear. But yeah, frankly I think the quest/nightmare hunt weapons from Shadowkeep should have not been sunset like they were and instead sunset on the next session or for longer. Making them a good option for players who didn't play the later sessions, or like me, was too burnt out to do them.

Though instead of just using what ever armour dropped, I burnt through my reserves to put the armour and weapons to higher power levels on the climb to 1200...

I do have a very solid Gnawing Hunger though, thing's a beast in PVE and PVP despite having a PVP focused roll. Sadly missing a decent legendary HMG, kinetic sniper (ran with a Tranquility with a non god roll, very solid though) since I haven't gotten a Long Shadow that's a good roll yet. And miss using the Vanguard ritual HMG and the Season of the Undying HMG.

What I do like is the fact I can now buy the ritual weapons, for obscene prices, though they need to add in raid weapons and armour for the sunset ones so we can complete our collections.

[Rogress (UA)]

s0laris původně napsal:

Rogress (UA) původně napsal:

I've got my fav gun in Forsaken and it was just a simple Trackless Waste SMG and now I cant use it and it does not have a successor to it. I'll be completely pissed if they wont add a smg that is a successor to Trackless Waste and has 900rpm with same control and feel. SMGs are forgotten and I absolutely hate it.

Escape Velocity.

It's ugly and I don't like the gun itself.