Why is Warlock so weak in Crucible?

[AlastairKD]

I genuinely want to know this, they have the slowest melee speed, have no insta-kill melees like Hunter and Titan, Nova Bomb is so slow that its unusable, Stormcaller and Chaos Reach are both bad, and Nova Warp makes you easier to kill than outside it. The only decent one is Dawnblade and its STILL the worst roaming super in the game. Why is Bungie so biased towards the other two classes roaming Supers. Better yet, why do we even HAVE roaming supers at all?

[Con.RoXP]

I play Titan and there was this one Warlock that was clapping my cheeks pretty good with the handheld supernova but that's because he actually knew how to use it properly.

Generally speaking though almost all Warlocks in the Crucible can be summed up with the following (if you're a Titan):

-"No you can't just block my Dawnblade with your shield and then slap me with it"

-"Haha purple pizza go bonk".

[GrayBeardFPS]

when i play pvp as warlock i play as healer or support class i just hope they add more points into healing others and playing support. warlock are just healers in my eyes the fact they can dish out some damage is just a plus. survival is mostly ♥♥♥♥ doh but then again we are a week offencive class and strong support class.

[Sluggerface]

Warlock isn't even remotely weak.

The best PVP stat (recovery) lowers the cooldown of their class ability.

Blink is the best jump in the game for pvp for freaking obvious reasons. Just because you don't know how to use it in engagements properly doesn't make it bad.

Top tree dawnblade melee is way more versatile than throwing knife or hunter bombs, and can trigger exotic interactions like sunbracers. Top tree also gives you mobility plays that no other class can achieve through heat rises. It also gives you a dodge ability.

I haven't play stormcaller in the latest patch, but arc soul with getaway artist used to be insanely good.

Playing middle tree void lets you free up a shotgun for a sniper.



If you posted this in crucible playbook you would probably get laughed at bruh.

[Slaughtergrin]

Tun-Tun eredeti hozzászólása:

headless head eredeti hozzászólása:

Warlocks are the best choice for PVP if you use your brain at least sometimes. Both great speed and variability. You can fight your enemies in air, in mid-air, on the ground. You have LONG FREAKING RANGE melee ability. Dawnblade flies around at the speed of sound (the fact that you don't know that makes you exactly titan fan, you decide good that or not for ya), blackhole kills anyone in radius, stormcaller has imbalanced speed comparing to the hunters' staff wielders. And they have blink. Has heal, or damage boost, or both. Grenades are great as well, doing burning damage for a longer period of time.
It is the best PVP choice. If you can't handle it, go play titan. With onehit abilities and no required brain cells to play decent.

Let me tell you why everything you said is wrong.

1. Warlock's default speed is the same as the other 3 classes, neither can run faster than the others without an exotic.

2. EVERY class can fight in the air and on the ground.

3. The long range ability's are the worst part of Warlock, and again, not one single Warlock melee is an insta-kill when both Titan and Hunter have more than one insta-kill melee ability.

4. Dawnblade's speed is exactly the problem, its too damn fast for you to keep track of so you cant get decent target aquisition and end up spamming your sword strikes wildly hoping for a splash damage kill.

5. All Nova supers are slow as hell, useless, or both.

6. Stormcaller is flat out broken and doesnt work, and Chaos Reach is unusable in PVP.

7. Blink is only for voidwalker and its the worst double jump option he has, and rifts are nowhere near as good as barriers or dodge.

8. The only good grenade Warlock has is handheld Supernova, all the others deal piss poor damage.

Decency isnt the issue for Warlock, the problem with Warlock is that he's THE SINGLE WORST PVP CLASS TO PLAY.

I play WL and i cant follow you Oo?
WL is super op in pvp.... just learn to play it lol

[majzerofive]

He's just mad because bad. I personally would've been much happier if warlock was my first choice a 1.5 months ago. Instead I went for a hunter and it is actually the worst class in the game. Ofcourse you can make it play, but still overall it is the worst class in the game. You're not fast enough to run faster than both titan and warlock. You're not as durable as both of them in super and without it. Invisibility is like 85%, not more (which basically means an enemy won't see you only if you stay a hundred miles away and not moving). Jump is awful, because it won't allow you to aim down sights while jumping. So if you decide to go back, the only option you have is to actually turn around and go back, no flying-jumping-dashes or whatever. Arc staff isn't fast enough to kill even a warlock without super. Yes, you can deflect projectiles, but that is simply not enough if you play some survival or trials. Void mid-tree would be good with 100% invisibility, but instead it is a regular void hunter's invisibility which really doesn't make you invisible so the only way to stay alive is to spam melee attack and zigzag moves. GG has no shield which makes it the easiest prey to onetap. Titans have more durability and speed + range ability with overshield and magnetic. Warlocks have flying dawnblade with overshield, dashes or blackhole. Hunters suck at everything. Even void hunter's tether made in the way that you just can't tether a super running at you and stay alive in the process. You'll die and not tether or die and at least turn off enemy's ultimate. So the only option to stay alive and tether left is to spam it on the ground before you even see your enemy and pray he's stupid enough to come close to your tether and die willingly. Nice class, really appreciate it. The only good thing about hunter is instant reload which is very helpful in pvp nonstop combat.

[AlastairKD]

paint the snail eredeti hozzászólása:

He's just mad because bad. I personally would've been much happier if warlock was my first choice a 1.5 months ago. Instead I went for a hunter and it is actually the worst class in the game. Ofcourse you can make it play, but still overall it is the worst class in the game. You're not fast enough to run faster than both titan and warlock. You're not as durable as both of them in super and without it. Invisibility is like 85%, not more (which basically means an enemy won't see you only if you stay a hundred miles away and not moving). Jump is awful, because it won't allow you to aim down sights while jumping. So if you decide to go back, the only option you have is to actually turn around and go back, no flying-jumping-dashes or whatever. Arc staff isn't fast enough to kill even a warlock without super. Yes, you can deflect projectiles, but that is simply not enough if you play some survival or trials. Void mid-tree would be good with 100% invisibility, but instead it is a regular void hunter's invisibility which really doesn't make you invisible so the only way to stay alive is to spam melee attack and zigzag moves. GG has no shield which makes it the easiest prey to onetap. Titans have more durability and speed + range ability with overshield and magnetic. Warlocks have flying dawnblade with overshield, dashes or blackhole. Hunters suck at everything. Even void hunter's tether made in the way that you just can't tether a super running at you and stay alive in the process. You'll die and not tether or die and at least turn off enemy's ultimate. So the only option to stay alive and tether left is to spam it on the ground before you even see your enemy and pray he's stupid enough to come close to your tether and die willingly. Nice class, really appreciate it. The only good thing about hunter is instant reload which is very helpful in pvp nonstop combat.

Mad because bad is not an argument that counters any of my points sir, and Hunter is VERY good in Crucible. Please don't post bait when I'm trying to have a legitimate discussion.

[AlastairKD]

Pullaaaaaa eredeti hozzászólása:

Tun-Tun eredeti hozzászólása:

Let me tell you why everything you said is wrong.

1. Warlock's default speed is the same as the other 3 classes, neither can run faster than the others without an exotic.

2. EVERY class can fight in the air and on the ground.

3. The long range ability's are the worst part of Warlock, and again, not one single Warlock melee is an insta-kill when both Titan and Hunter have more than one insta-kill melee ability.

4. Dawnblade's speed is exactly the problem, its too damn fast for you to keep track of so you cant get decent target aquisition and end up spamming your sword strikes wildly hoping for a splash damage kill.

5. All Nova supers are slow as hell, useless, or both.

6. Stormcaller is flat out broken and doesnt work, and Chaos Reach is unusable in PVP.

7. Blink is only for voidwalker and its the worst double jump option he has, and rifts are nowhere near as good as barriers or dodge.

8. The only good grenade Warlock has is handheld Supernova, all the others deal piss poor damage.

Decency isnt the issue for Warlock, the problem with Warlock is that he's THE SINGLE WORST PVP CLASS TO PLAY.

Lmao blink is the worst jump? What a pepega

It is the worst jump, its very inconsistent and leaves you vulnerable after using it. Maybe instead of posting dead reddit memes you could actually refute my points?

[AlastairKD]

Slaughtergrin eredeti hozzászólása:

Tun-Tun eredeti hozzászólása:

Let me tell you why everything you said is wrong.

1. Warlock's default speed is the same as the other 3 classes, neither can run faster than the others without an exotic.

2. EVERY class can fight in the air and on the ground.

3. The long range ability's are the worst part of Warlock, and again, not one single Warlock melee is an insta-kill when both Titan and Hunter have more than one insta-kill melee ability.

4. Dawnblade's speed is exactly the problem, its too damn fast for you to keep track of so you cant get decent target aquisition and end up spamming your sword strikes wildly hoping for a splash damage kill.

5. All Nova supers are slow as hell, useless, or both.

6. Stormcaller is flat out broken and doesnt work, and Chaos Reach is unusable in PVP.

7. Blink is only for voidwalker and its the worst double jump option he has, and rifts are nowhere near as good as barriers or dodge.

8. The only good grenade Warlock has is handheld Supernova, all the others deal piss poor damage.

Decency isnt the issue for Warlock, the problem with Warlock is that he's THE SINGLE WORST PVP CLASS TO PLAY.

I play WL and i cant follow you Oo?
WL is super op in pvp.... just learn to play it lol

HOW is Warlock OP? You said nothing to back up your statement.

[Sluggerface]

Tun-Tun eredeti hozzászólása:

Mad because bad is not an argument that counters any of my points sir.

But it is when it shows that you aren't understanding the context of the game mechanics and how effectively they can be used in pvp.

2. EVERY class can fight in the air and on the ground.

Titan's and Hunter do not have baked in mid air accuracy benefits that warlocks get from the subclass tree. They have to sacrifice a mod slot for icarus grip. They also do not have access to a mid-air dodge. Heat Rises gives you a significant competitive advantage in maps that have differing elevations (which is most maps) if you are using it correctly.

3. The long range ability's are the worst part of Warlock, and again, not one single Warlock melee is an insta-kill when both Titan and Hunter have more than one insta-kill melee ability.

Throwing Knife is a silver bullet ability. You either land the ability for a OHKO or you don't. Warlock ranged melees have significantly quicker animation frames and are far more lenient in actually landing them. You can kill people with them who are one hit and standing in cover if you have an adequate angle to do so. Titan charges are used more for mobility at high levels of play so that titans can push map control. They are easily countered by even the most average shotgun user.

4. Dawnblade's speed is exactly the problem, its too damn fast for you to keep track of so you cant get decent target aquisition and end up spamming your sword strikes wildly hoping for a splash damage kill.

And yet thousands of people can get kills with dawnblade without a problem. Try turning down your settings in PVP. Every single super has significant VFX added to them that effects lighting that can make it incredibly difficult to understand what is going on around you.

5. All Nova supers are slow as hell, useless, or both.

I'm not going to disagree that Nova isn't the best super in the game, but you're missing the forest for the trees. The nova subclasses have far stronger neutral games (i.e. Devour). Also, don't launch a nova cross map.

7. Blink is only for voidwalker and its the worst double jump option he has, and rifts are nowhere near as good as barriers or dodge.

Blink isn't the worst double jump. Blink allows you to close the gap or back out of a bad engagement INSTANTLY. Caught in the open? Blink to a pillar. No other class has this option available to them. If you don't think this is an advantage, being able to jump unabated to different forms of cover instantly, how that effects map control and firing angles in a team FPS, I really don't know what to say to you. It sounds like you just want to be able to blink into somebodies face and shotgun them instantly, which is absolutely absurd.

Rifts are equivalent to Barricades, both require pre-placement with a reasonable prediction that it's going to benefit you during an engagement.

8. The only good grenade Warlock has is handheld Supernova, all the others deal ♥♥♥♥ poor damage.

Everybodies grenades suck unless you use them in spots and situations that they were meant for.

Not going to comment on what you said about stormcaller because I don't actively play stormcaller. But i'm experienced enough to know that even that has options if you're playing it correctly.

[AlastairKD]

Sluggerface eredeti hozzászólása:

Warlock isn't even remotely weak.

The best PVP stat (recovery) lowers the cooldown of their class ability.

Blink is the best jump in the game for pvp for freaking obvious reasons. Just because you don't know how to use it in engagements properly doesn't make it bad.

Top tree dawnblade melee is way more versatile than throwing knife or hunter bombs, and can trigger exotic interactions like sunbracers. Top tree also gives you mobility plays that no other class can achieve through heat rises. It also gives you a dodge ability.

I haven't play stormcaller in the latest patch, but arc soul with getaway artist used to be insanely good.

Playing middle tree void lets you free up a shotgun for a sniper.



If you posted this in crucible playbook you would probably get laughed at bruh.

No, recovery lowers the delay for your health to start regenerating and how fast it happens. The class ability cooldown is negligible since rift is garbage compared to erecting a barrier and dodging with full invulnerability + partial health regen.

Top tree dawnblade has very little versatility outside of a mid-air dodge and it still has no insta-kill melee like and sunbracers is not a good exotic to pair with them since it does not buff dawnblade. Heat Rises comes at the cost of warlock being able to use a grenade and you're MORE vulnerable in the air as warlock than on ground.

Middle Tree void ONLY has handheld supernova, nothing else about it is good.

[Illusive Soul]

Warlock is powerfull,just tricky to use. Warlock has slow punch,but the punch has longer range than any class,Warlock has longer duration on air,can dash shot if needed,Dawn blade is quite scary,you fly dash to war zone and start killing everyone,Nova is one of the thing i hate the most,on gambit,other team that had nova Super always wipe boss in a second,the void blink is so scary if you pair with shot gun,Warlock are not weak,you just cant release its full potential.

[AlastairKD]

E-Enigma eredeti hozzászólása:

Warlock is powerfull,just tricky to use. Warlock has slow punch,but the punch has longer range than any class,Warlock has longer duration on air,can dash shot if needed,Dawn blade is quite scary,you fly dash to war zone and start killing everyone,Nova is one of the thing i hate the most,on gambit,other team that had nova Super always wipe boss in a second,the void blink is so scary if you pair with shot gun,Warlock are not weak,you just cant release its full potential.

I just explained why everything you listed needs fixes before, Warlock still loses melee engagements REGARDLESS of range advantages, and thanks to shotguns essentially being crutch weapons, Felwinter's Lie being the worse offender, they can 1 tap you at the same range you can melee them.

[Illusive Soul]

why you try to slap shotguner ? Warlock still had 3 fire bolt as meele skills,you can just cast the fire bolt and meele player,how lose a meele ?

[PhellAsleep]

Warlock's ability to stay in the air is countered by their slooooooow speed. A midair Warlock is essentially a floating free kill for everyone else on the map with half decent aim. Whatever "aim" bonus you think they have is negligible next to the built in aim assist on the meta weapons.

[Sluggerface]

PhellAsleep eredeti hozzászólása:

Warlock's ability to stay in the air is countered by their slooooooow speed. A midair Warlock is essentially a floating free kill for everyone else on the map with half decent aim. Whatever "aim" bonus you think they have is negligible next to the built in aim assist on the meta weapons.

Bro if you're floating in mid-air, out in the open with no idea where to go should you get pinched, you have bigger problems, because the exact same thing would happen on the ground.