[Explosive Payload] perk is a sham.

[krashd]

I have two scout rifles I'm comparing and I started to become concerned when the lesser, generic rifle was dropping Scorn and Taken with one hit while the unique weapon I hoped would win was taking two shots to kill both.

First the underdog...
TELEMACHUS-C, kinetic weapon, 940 power
I got this awarded on Mars once and now find them everywhere.
[High-Impact Frame]
[Zen Moment]
No masterwork

Now my newly found oddity...
DOES NOT COMPUTE, kinetic weapon, 948 power
Found this for the first time in a crucible match earlier today.
[High-Impact Frame]
[Moving Target]
[Explosive Payload]
Tier 4 Reload Speed, so no bonus yet.

Both weapons have almost identical impact with the bar being by my estimates at 66-70% on both, so I'm thinking the 8 extra power may play some small part but the real bonus has to be the explosive payload.. Well not so. The second rifle does spit out an extra 520 explosive damage on top of it's main damage but it's main damage is hugely inferior to the Telemachus rifle.

A precision shot on a low rank Taken...
TELEMACHUS-C = 1722 yellow damage
DOES NOT COMPUTE = 1020 yellow damage and 520 white damage, any ad in proximity also gets 520 white damage.

A precision shot on a low rank Scorn...
TELEMACHUS-C = 1722 yellow damage
DOES NOT COMPUTE = 1020 yellow damage, no white damage, no damage to other ads



My conclusion? Explosive Payload doesn't add any extra oomph to a shot, it just converts around a third of the impact damage into solar damage and splashes a little of it onto any other ad nearby, and if the ads you are shooting at happen to have solar resistance you just end up with a really crap gun.

Oh, and I won't even get started on why the stronger looking rifle still only does a total of 1540 compared to 1722, it's as though the total damage is dropped to compensate for the fact you get to splash aggro any ad your target was having a cigarette break with when you shot it.

[Aidenel]

Wanted to test it out as well, so here are my results:
Tested them in the Trophy hall against a Simulated Dreg, and used 4 Handcannons instead, they all have Adaptive frames, so lets start out:

First weapon:
Ten Paces, average power level 932, it comes with Timed Payload.
Headshot damage: 1493, and 1126 explosion damage.
Bodyshot damage: 706, and 1126 explosion damage.

Second weapon:
Better Devils, average power level 929, it has Explosive Payload.
Headshot damage: 1538, and 1000 explosion damage.
Bodyshot damage: 769, and 1000 explosion damage.

Bonus 2nd weapon, found a Better Devils without explosive payload.
Average power level 931.
Headshot damage: 2330
Bodyshot damage: 1558.

Third weapon:
Living memory, average power level 929, no explosions.
Headshot damage: 2301.
Bodyshot damage: 1539.

So while it does take some of the actual weapon damage and converts it, it adds a slight oomph to the damage, atleast on handcannons.
Edit: added a better devils without explosive payload that I found in my Vault.

Update:
Retest with both Better devils upgraded to 948, bringing my average power to 964.
This is still against simulated Dregs.
With explosive round: 1571 +1022 damage on headshot, and 758+1022 body.
Without explosive rounds: 2351 head, 1572 body.
And now against Dregs in lost sectors on the moon:
With explosion: 2838+1846, so 4684 on headshot, and 1420+1846, total of 3266 on bodyshot.
without explosion: 4247 head, 2840 body.

[2PLY]

something im learning the hard way also, is that the light level of equipment seems to matter even more than stats. Higher light level = better dmg regardless of pure stats.

Stats dont seem to mean butt all if it's on a lower light level gear(especially in pvp)

[vgahaydenms]

I'll go ahead and point out the issues you're having & why you're wrong.

Both Scout Rifles you listed have the exact same Impact stat of 67 because they are 150rpm & are both Kinetic Weapons. This means they should do the same damage per hit without perks.

https://www.light.gg/db/items/2278995296/does-not-compute/

https://www.light.gg/db/items/541053086/telemachus-c/

Secondly Explosive Payload does not add Solar Damage & enemies in Destiny 2 do not have elemental resistances apart from the Coloured-Shields. It splits your Damage & gives the "explosive" part no Damage Fall-off. That means at literally any range the Explosive portion will always being hitting it's maximum amount.

The other problem with your test was you used different enemies likely in different places. Taken & Scorn.

You should be testing both weapons in the same area against the same enemy type.

Your damage dealt will drastically change visually depending on where you are & what you're fighting because of your Power Level. The Telemachus might hit 1,000 against a Taken Thrall on Earth, but if you go into a Raid it might hit 4,000. Even entering a Lost Sector will mess up results compared to enemies outside of it.

Visually it changes but if you're the correct Power Level it will take the same amount of shots to kill it.

Avoid the Tribute Hall as Minor enemies there have the incorrect Damage modifiers still.

Explosive Payload tested properly shows it adds a 10-15% damage increase to everything. Depending on if it is a Minor, Major, or Boss.

EDIT:

In the future you should use weapons at the same Power Level. Test them both on the same enemy type while also being in the same area or activity.

Also the "Tier 4 Reload Speed, so no bonus yet." is infact giving you a bonus. The extra Reload is still on your weapon. The Stat turns yellow at Masterwork level 10 but it is just visual. Ranks 1-9 still benefit you.

[Aidenel]

Originally posted by vgahaydenms:

-Snip-

Not sure why you say avoid the trophy hall, my findings basically showed that explosive payload added like 10% or so damage, while Timed Payload added slightly more.

[krashd]

I tested both weapons on both enemies, the equivalent of having run the test twice, that should be obvious.

[vgahaydenms]

Originally posted by Lenn Reegar:

Originally posted by vgahaydenms:

-Snip-

Not sure why you say avoid the trophy hall, my findings basically showed that explosive payload added like 10% or so damage, while Timed Payload added slightly more.

Purely because prior to the Shadowkeep/New Light update, enemies with Red HP Bars took double damage from Precision hits & Explosive Payload had received a nerf which caused you to deal less damage to them.

That nerf got reverted but the Tribute Hall still contains incorrect Damage Modifiers. I'm just being careful incase it doesn't give proper results, but I may have missed a Patch/hotfix that fixed it.

I'll test out the Tribute Hall again later today.

[vgahaydenms]

Originally posted by krashd:

I tested both weapons on both enemies, the equivalent of having run the test twice, that should be obvious.

If that's the case something else had to of been done that has skewed your results.

[Aidenel]

Originally posted by vgahaydenms:

Originally posted by Lenn Reegar:

Not sure why you say avoid the trophy hall, my findings basically showed that explosive payload added like 10% or so damage, while Timed Payload added slightly more.

Purely because prior to the Shadowkeep/New Light update, enemies with Red HP Bars took double damage from Precision hits & Explosive Payload had received a nerf which caused you to deal less damage to them.

That nerf got reverted but the Tribute Hall still contains incorrect Damage Modifiers. I'm just being careful incase it doesn't give proper results, but I may have missed a Patch/hotfix that fixed it.

I'll test out the Tribute Hall again later today.

Sounds good, I hadn't really used the Trophy hall prior to Shadowkeep, so I didn't know there had been discrepancies with the damage numbers.

[legodark]

the purpose of explosive payload is not in additional damage, but in the fact that the damage from an explosion does not depend on range. and no, it does not convert kinetic damage to energy.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by krashd:

Originally posted by legodark:

the purpose of explosive payload is not in additional damage, but in the fact that the damage from an explosion does not depend on range. and no, it does not convert kinetic damage to energy.

It clearly does as both my test and Lenn's test show, if a weapon has EP as a perk then it's base damage is lowered by around the same amount of explosive damage that is gained.

Lenn said it gains 10% damage overall, and you're saying otherwise/contradicting yourself here. It does gain a slight bit of damage, let's be completely clear about that, as well as the explosive damage not suffering from any range fall-off.

[krashd]

Adding or subtracting damage was neither here nor there - what Legodark commented on was how one third of the damage is converted from base damage to explosive damage, which Lenn and I both confirmed. Do you just look for arguments, chief?

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by krashd:

Adding or subtracting damage was neither here nor there - what Legodark commented on was how one third of the damage is converted from base damage to explosive damage, which Lenn and I both confirmed. Do you just look for arguments, chief?

Originally posted by Lenn Reegar:

my findings basically showed that explosive payload added like 10% or so damage, while Timed Payload added slightly more.

Just trying to keep the comments in the thread clear and concise, chief. If you want to argue, though, try reading other's comments more clearly before spouting misleading information.

[krashd]

Pedantry at play again..

Originally posted by Lenn Reegar:

Better Devils, average power level 929, it has Explosive Payload.
Headshot damage: 1538, and 1000 explosion damage.
Bodyshot damage: 769, and 1000 explosion damage.

Bonus 2nd weapon, found a Better Devils without explosive payload.
Average power level 931.
Headshot damage: 2330
Bodyshot damage: 1558.

Last I checked the number 1538 comes before the number 2330, ergo "base" damage was lowered as some is converted to explosive. We were not talking about adding or subtracting, multiplying or dividing - Lego commented specifically on some damage being converted, "converted".

So missed in translation or what? Or again, just pedantry? Looking for miscellaneous tat to quibble over? 0_o

[krashd]

And don't talk nonsense about "clear and concise", you've derailed about 4 threads in as many days...

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by krashd:

Pedantry at play again..

Originally posted by Lenn Reegar:

Better Devils, average power level 929, it has Explosive Payload.
Headshot damage: 1538, and 1000 explosion damage.
Bodyshot damage: 769, and 1000 explosion damage.

Bonus 2nd weapon, found a Better Devils without explosive payload.
Average power level 931.
Headshot damage: 2330
Bodyshot damage: 1558.

Last I checked the number 1538 comes before the number 2330, ergo "base" damage was lowered as some is converted to explosive. We were not talking about adding or subtracting, multiplying or dividing - Lego commented specifically on some damage being converted, "converted".

So missed in translation or what? Or again, just pedantry? Looking for miscellaneous tat to quibble over? 0_o

You know what, if you're going to be an asshat, I don't care if you understand the information presented by others or not.