helicopter movement is wrong (feels like a jet)

[Morrison]

i found out that the movement of the helicopters in this game are not right. when you´re flying forward and try to steer by using the pedals (q and e button) its just not working (just feels like leaning left and rigth but dont really steers), if you whant to steer the heli in that game while flying forward you have to steer it like a jet by rolling it to the side and pulling the nose up, that feels and looks completly wrong, its a helicopter not a jet...
the only way spinning left and right with pedals in this game is as long your not flying forward, than it works but a real heli can fly forward and spin around at the same time and fly thight circles and not has to be steered like a jet by rolling to side and pulling the nose up.... even my little electric toy- heli can do this...

if arma whants to be some kind of a simulation- game this has to be fixed otherwise its just ridiculous...

or is it just my fault and i´m doing something wrong (maybe i need another button for it in this game to do it)? in battlefield (i know its not a simulation game) it feels and looks much better and more realistic than in arma 3...

to proof that a heli can fly forward and spin at the same time here is a link to a video (i know its just a heli-modell but i found no other video where you can see this as good like here)

just look at 1:50, 1:58 and best you see it at 2:33 and you will see what i mean, in arma 3 such moves are not possible atm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fleSWutEwvE

so pls fix that or tell me what i´m doing wrong that it not works for me, i really hope it will be better in the final version of the game...

[RLeeErmey]

The faster your airspeed the less response you'll get from the tail rotors. It takes a lot more energy to windvane into the wind. It creates drag. Sort of how like you can use your rudder and opposite aeleron to slow your airspeed.

[Jacob]

You are wrong, I've been in a helicopter like a Hummingbird. When, you touch the rudder petals, the helicopter will just rotate slightly and continue on its old path. This game simulates that perfectly. I was actually impressed to see this feature. Also, if you know anything about a Jet, you would know that the average jet's rudder control is linked in with it's ailerons so it does turn when you use the rudder. (At least if you are going 2-600 mph.) So, get your facts straight before you say stuff.

[Paul]

Publicado originalmente por CrazyBaron:

yeah but what about mi-48?
since it's coaxial rotors...

So does the KA-50 Black Shark and it can't do what the OP expects it to do. No chopper can.

[RLeeErmey]

Publicado originalmente por Imaboss69:

You are wrong, I've been in a helicopter like a Hummingbird. When, you touch the rudder petals, the helicopter will just rotate slightly and continue on its old path. This game simulates that perfectly. I was actually impressed to see this feature. Also, if you know anything about a Jet, you would know that the average jet's rudder control is linked in with it's ailerons so it does turn when you use the rudder. (At least if you are going 2-600 mph.) So, get your facts straight before you say stuff.

Hope you are not talking to me. I made no reference to a "fly by wire" jet. We were alking about the helecopers in this sim. I made a point about how inducing yaw at high speeds would be more difficult like in a regular aircraft. It creates drag and requires more force to create the yaw. Aerodynamically speaking my point is completely valid. The higher the chopper's forward speed the harder it will become to yaw. Its just drag. The only way to compensate is through power and the added drag will slow you down. If I were you I'd reconsider trying to correct someone who's probably logged many more hours in actual aircraft than you.

[RLeeErmey]

Publicado originalmente por CrazyBaron:

yeah but what about mi-48?
since it's coaxial rotors...

Anyone driven a boat at high speed and tried to turn fast? Same principle. You can't. DRAG. Your yaw will be less responsive the faster you go.

[Paul]

Publicado originalmente por CrazyBaron:

Publicado originalmente por Killer Tampon:

So does the KA-50 Black Shark and it can't do what the OP expects it to do. No chopper can.

isn't the reason why ka-50/ka-52 have gun on side because it can rotate it self how it likes even on full speed do to coaxial rotors?

Nope, you can't really rotate it fully at high speed. You'd need to change the angle of roll to turn around and you could make the turn a bit tighter with the pedals. It is definitely more maneuverable, there is more wiggle room, but aerodynamics and forward momentum prevent you from doing what the original poster wants. As I said, get DCS Black Shark and try it, it's an amazing simulation.



Ermey: I think Imaboss was talking to the OP, not you.

[Zorg_DK]

dcs black shawk is indeed great for what it is, best heli physics on pc. i haven't tried dcs huey.. hopefully we'll get the take on helicopters flight model in arma3 at some point, at least for the editor. then it would be more challeging to fly, and we would get torque from tail rotor. but anyway, helis are fun to fly in a3 i think, but too arcady.

[Spooky804]

Publicado originalmente por ๊:

The only "wrong" thing about helicopters in arma is that they auto correct.
I don't know all the fine terms they use, but try playing a simulator like Black Shark. Pretty much the same... In Black Shark you "just" have to constantly change the rear rotor power, main rotor blade's angle and so on. Thank God we don't have to do all that in arma.

one problem with this statement. The black Shark does not have a Tail Rotor

[Truther]

lmfao @ this thread

[MrKlorox]

Yes, the Arma 3 AH-9 flight model isn't as realistic as even Take on Helicopters' AH-6 flight model, but the phenomenon you describe is pretty accurate to how physics affect the real things.

However also keep in mind that in Arma 3, the way helicopters behave when using mouse+keyboard to control them is different from how they behave when mapping the controls to analog axes on a real joystick. When you use the keyboard to adjust the collective, it tries to keep your height when you stop pressing those keys as you tilt forward and back with the mouse or keys. As you tilt forward, the collective automatically increases without you having to press Q (or whatever key you have it bound to) giving you forward momentum. Almost like a half auto hover.

With an analog collective, the lift stays constant relative to the position of the slider/throttle on your joystick, rather than your altitude. So as you tilt forward, you have to increase the collective so the extra lift will propel you forward without making you dive into the ground. More like a real helicopter. I would expect the tail rotor to be similarly busted using only a mouse or keys.

What makes Take On Helicopters more realistic is how you can push the main rotor too hard by maxing out the collective at low speeds, or how you can choose to have to manage trim, or how increasing or decreasing the collective requires you to adjust the change in counter rotation with the pedals.

[Yourgrandma]

Arma is a infantry sim at it's core helicopters and jets just need to be functional on level that simulates a realistic battlefield presence the smaller intricacies are not all that important.

That being said i think the choppers are mostly fine the way they are.

[Stanley Johnson]

At high speed through a fluid you will lose control with anything. Boats, jets and helis. Even so helis are suposed to be like this. Try disabling the tail rotor and then flying forward, you will see that it stops spinning. I'm not saying the flight model is perfect, far from it actually.