Worst AI in any game

[Interior Crocodile]

Am i the only person that plays this game and acknowdleges how absolutly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the AI is?

I see people say its the smartest AI they've ever seen, then i go tell my squad to run in a straight line about 100m south and instead they run about 200m northwest. Are these people just as ♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the ai or what?

[SquirrelzQL]

I have a few suggestions for what ArmA could improve on by ArmA 4's release. However, as history seems to repeat itself, I doubt any of this will ever happen. I had very little success getting through to the developers of ArmA 3 before it's release, let alone the community as they were all so eligant to say no.

I feel like Bohemia Interactive was dealt a bad hand, and has been trying to pull off miracles with it for a very long time.

So, here are my suggestions.

1. NavMesh, I have no idea if Bohemia Interactive uses NavMesh, but I do know Unreal Engine 4 does and it works miracles for AI pathfinding. A NavMesh is basically a surface area based layer that is placed across all BSP(Binary Space Partitioning) and Static Meshes. ArmA's terrain I believe is the only BSP in the game, everything else is an Object like a Static Mesh. One of the issues with everything being an Object in ArmA is that we're stuck with waypoints rather than a full surface area of AI Pathing. This is also why AI moves like geese up stairs and inside of buildings. It is also another reason why AI fails to use bridges sometimes on some user designed islands. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, ArmA uses waypoints and not a NavMesh. This would also indicate that all of the coding for detection of objects in it's path and how it would use and avoid them to reach it's desired destination would be a constant scan by the AI to the Engine and back. I feel like the performance in ArmA is heavily weighted down by this pathfinding model.

2. Open Source AI module, rather than having the AI predefined and forced to use a certain loop of algorithms, allow the community programmer to delete or even replace this AI with their own algorithm loop. One of the biggest reasons why I suggest this model is because we're stuck with the AI that Bohemia Interactive made for ArmA 3, and there are certain behavioral instances that the AI gets stuck in that FORCES the AI to do things that the player has no control over. Some of the things that AI get stuck doing is taking cover or just standing still and shooting, and there are times where the Squad Leader(Player) has decided to try and move to another location but the AI can't break "Auto Combat Mode". I believe that if we ever get the chance to dump this horrible system, we might get a far better optimized game with less glitches\bugs because we wont have to backend every script to prevent the AI from doing stupid ♥♥♥♥ like this.

3. AI Critical Thinking skills. This would probably bog the system down a little bit, but it is a better trade than having ♥♥♥♥ AI and ♥♥♥♥ performance at the same time like we do now. I was hoping that we could have the AI react more appropriately to the gunfire. If you take a human for instance, we're trying to survive under gunfire and not get shot. There are situations where we don't have cover close by, and there are situations where we DO have cover close by. However, what the AI should do in the case of not having cover is STAY IN FORMATION. They are completely useless if they don't. If there is cover nearby, don't just casually walk to it like Private Pyle. SPRINT to it with as much furiosity as possible. The problem is that there is too much time to kill for players and enemy soldiers when AI are relocating. You don't have to worry so much about missing shots because you'll always get another chance =)


So, yeah... I think the game could use a new AI system. But overall, I think they should invest in Unreal Engine 4 or just make a new game engine.

[Heavy Metal Nuts]

Its mixed ...some times they do things that you would expect will make them derp and some times flanking you with out you ever knowing surprising you

then other times they fail to move from point A to B ....instead going A B A B C A B im there ...

[SquirrelzQL]

Originally posted by BALLS OF STEEL:

Its mixed ...some times they do things that you would expect will make them derp and some times flanking you with out you ever knowing surprising you

then other times they fail to move from point A to B ....instead going A B A B C A B im there ...

If you're using VCOM AI or something like that, the modder added extra code to get the AI to communicate with other groups to flank and out manuever. The only issue with VCOM AI is Auto Danger, which is something that as of the last few patches by Bohemia Interactive, I think that any fixes to avoid Auto Danger may be currently broken. Then again, it may have been patched. I just know that as SP players, we're on thin ice because of some behavioral loops the AI get in. Even mods like VCOM AI cannot fully fix some of the more key issues because they cannot get rid of bad code, the only thing they can do is either add to that code or try and prevent it from being initialized.

[P_ter]

Originally posted by fatsquirrelmahn:

I have a few suggestions for what ArmA could improve on by ArmA 4's release. However, as history seems to repeat itself, I doubt any of this will ever happen. I had very little success getting through to the developers of ArmA 3 before it's release, let alone the community as they were all so eligant to say no.

I feel like Bohemia Interactive was dealt a bad hand, and has been trying to pull off miracles with it for a very long time.

So, here are my suggestions.

1. NavMesh, I have no idea if Bohemia Interactive uses NavMesh, but I do know Unreal Engine 4 does and it works miracles for AI pathfinding. A NavMesh is basically a surface area based layer that is placed across all BSP(Binary Space Partitioning) and Static Meshes. ArmA's terrain I believe is the only BSP in the game, everything else is an Object like a Static Mesh. One of the issues with everything being an Object in ArmA is that we're stuck with waypoints rather than a full surface area of AI Pathing. This is also why AI moves like geese up stairs and inside of buildings. It is also another reason why AI fails to use bridges sometimes on some user designed islands. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, ArmA uses waypoints and not a NavMesh. This would also indicate that all of the coding for detection of objects in it's path and how it would use and avoid them to reach it's desired destination would be a constant scan by the AI to the Engine and back. I feel like the performance in ArmA is heavily weighted down by this pathfinding model.

2. Open Source AI module, rather than having the AI predefined and forced to use a certain loop of algorithms, allow the community programmer to delete or even replace this AI with their own algorithm loop. One of the biggest reasons why I suggest this model is because we're stuck with the AI that Bohemia Interactive made for ArmA 3, and there are certain behavioral instances that the AI gets stuck in that FORCES the AI to do things that the player has no control over. Some of the things that AI get stuck doing is taking cover or just standing still and shooting, and there are times where the Squad Leader(Player) has decided to try and move to another location but the AI can't break "Auto Combat Mode". I believe that if we ever get the chance to dump this horrible system, we might get a far better optimized game with less glitches\bugs because we wont have to backend every script to prevent the AI from doing stupid ♥♥♥♥ like this.

3. AI Critical Thinking skills. This would probably bog the system down a little bit, but it is a better trade than having ♥♥♥♥ AI and ♥♥♥♥ performance at the same time like we do now. I was hoping that we could have the AI react more appropriately to the gunfire. If you take a human for instance, we're trying to survive under gunfire and not get shot. There are situations where we don't have cover close by, and there are situations where we DO have cover close by. However, what the AI should do in the case of not having cover is STAY IN FORMATION. They are completely useless if they don't. If there is cover nearby, don't just casually walk to it like Private Pyle. SPRINT to it with as much furiosity as possible. The problem is that there is too much time to kill for players and enemy soldiers when AI are relocating. You don't have to worry so much about missing shots because you'll always get another chance =)


So, yeah... I think the game could use a new AI system. But overall, I think they should invest in Unreal Engine 4 or just make a new game engine.

A Wild Necromancer Appears!

[ZigZack]

Originally posted by fatsquirrelmahn:

I have a few suggestions for what ArmA could improve on by ArmA 4's release. However, as history seems to repeat itself, I doubt any of this will ever happen. I had very little success getting through to the developers of ArmA 3 before it's release, let alone the community as they were all so eligant to say no.

I feel like Bohemia Interactive was dealt a bad hand, and has been trying to pull off miracles with it for a very long time.

So, here are my suggestions.

1. NavMesh, I have no idea if Bohemia Interactive uses NavMesh, but I do know Unreal Engine 4 does and it works miracles for AI pathfinding. A NavMesh is basically a surface area based layer that is placed across all BSP(Binary Space Partitioning) and Static Meshes. ArmA's terrain I believe is the only BSP in the game, everything else is an Object like a Static Mesh. One of the issues with everything being an Object in ArmA is that we're stuck with waypoints rather than a full surface area of AI Pathing. This is also why AI moves like geese up stairs and inside of buildings. It is also another reason why AI fails to use bridges sometimes on some user designed islands. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, ArmA uses waypoints and not a NavMesh. This would also indicate that all of the coding for detection of objects in it's path and how it would use and avoid them to reach it's desired destination would be a constant scan by the AI to the Engine and back. I feel like the performance in ArmA is heavily weighted down by this pathfinding model.

2. Open Source AI module, rather than having the AI predefined and forced to use a certain loop of algorithms, allow the community programmer to delete or even replace this AI with their own algorithm loop. One of the biggest reasons why I suggest this model is because we're stuck with the AI that Bohemia Interactive made for ArmA 3, and there are certain behavioral instances that the AI gets stuck in that FORCES the AI to do things that the player has no control over. Some of the things that AI get stuck doing is taking cover or just standing still and shooting, and there are times where the Squad Leader(Player) has decided to try and move to another location but the AI can't break "Auto Combat Mode". I believe that if we ever get the chance to dump this horrible system, we might get a far better optimized game with less glitches\bugs because we wont have to backend every script to prevent the AI from doing stupid ♥♥♥♥ like this.

3. AI Critical Thinking skills. This would probably bog the system down a little bit, but it is a better trade than having ♥♥♥♥ AI and ♥♥♥♥ performance at the same time like we do now. I was hoping that we could have the AI react more appropriately to the gunfire. If you take a human for instance, we're trying to survive under gunfire and not get shot. There are situations where we don't have cover close by, and there are situations where we DO have cover close by. However, what the AI should do in the case of not having cover is STAY IN FORMATION. They are completely useless if they don't. If there is cover nearby, don't just casually walk to it like Private Pyle. SPRINT to it with as much furiosity as possible. The problem is that there is too much time to kill for players and enemy soldiers when AI are relocating. You don't have to worry so much about missing shots because you'll always get another chance =)


So, yeah... I think the game could use a new AI system. But overall, I think they should invest in Unreal Engine 4 or just make a new game engine.

I mostly agree with you. I've studied the Arma AI quite extensively. From what I've heard, Arma 2 AI are easier/better to work on. This is one of the reasons I stick with Arma 2. Also, since you obviously have a decent interest in Arma AI, check out these clips of the legendary KAI mod for Arma 2 (not my videos):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xae83mnMRoU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eKANN0Qt4c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVo7ek3diBU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WK4e3BpO9I

[ZigZack]

Originally posted by fatsquirrelmahn:

1. NavMesh, I have no idea if Bohemia Interactive uses NavMesh, but I do know Unreal Engine 4 does and it works miracles for AI pathfinding. A NavMesh is basically a surface area based layer that is placed across all BSP(Binary Space Partitioning) and Static Meshes. ArmA's terrain I believe is the only BSP in the game, everything else is an Object like a Static Mesh. One of the issues with everything being an Object in ArmA is that we're stuck with waypoints rather than a full surface area of AI Pathing. This is also why AI moves like geese up stairs and inside of buildings. It is also another reason why AI fails to use bridges sometimes on some user designed islands. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, ArmA uses waypoints and not a NavMesh. This would also indicate that all of the coding for detection of objects in it's path and how it would use and avoid them to reach it's desired destination would be a constant scan by the AI to the Engine and back. I feel like the performance in ArmA is heavily weighted down by this pathfinding model.

The only thing I'd like to point out is that I think waypoints are necessary to some extent. The reason being that AI need a set/standard path in order to clear rooms/buildings in a realistic manner. I do think it can be improved, but I think you will always need set waypoints, especially for clearing buildings. Here is an example by VBS3, which is an official military simulator (uses a mix of Real Virtuality Engines 3 & 4 if I'm correct). Skip to 2:08 in the video (not mine):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwDaom_KIkY

[Chop111]

Originally posted by Interior Crocodile:

Am i the only person that plays this game and acknowdleges how absolutly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the AI is?

I see people say its the smartest AI they've ever seen, then i go tell my squad to run in a straight line about 100m south and instead they run about 200m northwest. Are these people just as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the ai or what?

Use ASR AI3 mod.

[Mocha]

I once watched a teammate AI throw down a smoke to cover himself when he was pinned by 2 autoriflemen and I thought "Wow, thats smart!"

Then he stands up, walks right through the smoke, and gets gunned down.

I couldn't help but giggle.

[Apache-NL]

Dear Croc,
I can tell you for sure , the ones that placed your ai where noobs or they where never told that they had to make them better .. I even wanna prove it to you and many would call themself lucky for me saying this ..iam willing to work on your ai script or just replace them . i can make them own you like a B or just give you a hard time but if i have to make them own you then non of yous would make it ..AI can hide , call for reinforcements and direct other ai squads to your position and with randomising those in the same event it would never get boring . So the ai is not stupid they are just doing what they are programmed to do and thats all ........ but what do i know i play,host,admin.and mod this from the year 2000 then after OFP became arma etc up till now ..

[Interior Crocodile]

Originally posted by DSOP.Apache:

Dear Croc,
I can tell you for sure , the ones that placed your ai where noobs or they where never told that they had to make them better .. I even wanna prove it to you and many would call themself lucky for me saying this ..iam willing to work on your ai script or just replace them . i can make them own you like a B or just give you a hard time but if i have to make them own you then non of yous would make it ..AI can hide , call for reinforcements and direct other ai squads to your position and with randomising those in the same event it would never get boring . So the ai is not stupid they are just doing what they are programmed to do and thats all ........ but what do i know i play,host,admin.and mod this from the year 2000 then after OFP became arma etc up till now ..

Im sure i said this somewhere on this dead post, but i have no issue with the enemy AI. The enemy AI is passable. But what youre telling me is the friendly AI should run around or completely freeze like theyre blind, deaf, and retarded.

I think thats a proper response to your post, i cant tell though. Its pretty hard to read posts written by dyslexics.

[ZigZack]

Originally posted by DSOP.Apache:

Dear Croc,
I can tell you for sure , the ones that placed your ai where noobs or they where never told that they had to make them better .. I even wanna prove it to you and many would call themself lucky for me saying this ..iam willing to work on your ai script or just replace them . i can make them own you like a B or just give you a hard time but if i have to make them own you then non of yous would make it ..AI can hide , call for reinforcements and direct other ai squads to your position and with randomising those in the same event it would never get boring . So the ai is not stupid they are just doing what they are programmed to do and thats all ........ but what do i know i play,host,admin.and mod this from the year 2000 then after OFP became arma etc up till now ..

What are you talking about? If you have something BETTER than ASR or VCOM for Arma 3 please let us know. Bohemia Interactive has a whole section dedicated to AI development. Otherwise, saying you've been playing since 2000 doesn't help us much.

[Interior Crocodile]

Originally posted by Chop111:

Originally posted by Interior Crocodile:

Am i the only person that plays this game and acknowdleges how absolutly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the AI is?

I see people say its the smartest AI they've ever seen, then i go tell my squad to run in a straight line about 100m south and instead they run about 200m northwest. Are these people just as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the ai or what?

Use ASR AI3 mod.

Believe me when i say ive tried just about every AI impovement mod i could find, this one included. For whatever reason the mods ive used dont make them smarter, they just behave differently (ie. staying in place, but rapidly swapping between stances)

[Captain n00by]

Compared to crappy mainstream console shooters like Call of Duty and Battlefield, ArmA's AI is very advanced. That's all I have to say here.

[Apache-NL]

Sometimes you just have to tweak the scrips or just change them to your liking , there are many tutors how you can script the ai and once you step in that world you would be suprised , but dont expect ai to behave totally like humans because thats not going to happen , i never saw a game that gives you the freedom as admin like Arma3 and i have been looking ..

[ZigZack]

Originally posted by DSOP.Apache:

Sometimes you just have to tweak the scrips or just change them to your liking , there are many tutors how you can script the ai and once you step in that world you would be suprised , but dont expect ai to behave totally like humans because thats not going to happen , i never saw a game that gives you the freedom as admin like Arma3 and i have been looking ..

Well I guess you didn't see my posts on the previous page. Take a look at the legendary KAI mod to see what real AI looks like.