Hold to crouch?

[Zombra]

Hi, I'm just starting the game and I can't find how to configure it so I HOLD a key to crouch.

Like, I want to press the Shift key DOWN to crouch DOWN, and then RELEASE the Shift key to stand UP again.

All I can find are "crouch (toggle)", which apparently means that I press Shift to crouch and then can never stand up again, or "crouch / stand up", which is an actual toggle.

Any help? Thanks.

[jbonesmd]

I use the X key to toggle crouching. I believe it's the default key.

[Zombra]

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

I use the X key to toggle crouching. I believe it's the default key.

That's fascinating, but doesn't answer my question. Thanks for bumping the thread at least

[ThunderStorm]

there is no key bind for hold crouch ,, default is crouch (toggle) ,, set it to crouch / stand up its not hold but fast way to crouch and stand up if you must move fast.

[Zombra]

Thanks *URC* 2020. That's disappointing. This is a basic control option in many games. So much for the most customizable shooter out there.

Can someone explain the actual difference between "crouch (toggle)" and "crouch / stand up"?

[jbonesmd]

I seem to detect a note of rancor in your reply and that is by all means fine by me, but what is the reasoning for wanting to hold a key down while crouching and releasing the key to stand back up when you can accomplish the same thing by pressing X twice ( doing this also allows you to free up your finger for picking your ear or scratching an itch instead of keeping your finger glued to the shift key )? I don't see where it changes the game play strategy so what would be the point to it?

[Zombra]

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

I seem to detect a note of rancor in your reply and that is by all means fine by me, but what is the reasoning for wanting to hold a key down while crouching and releasing the key to stand back up when you can accomplish the same thing by pressing X twice ( doing this also allows you to free up your finger for picking your ear or scratching an itch instead of keeping your finger glued to the shift key )? I don't see where it changes the game play strategy so what would be the point to it?

Then why are we allowed to hold down a mouse button to zoom in iron sights? Wouldn't it be better if that option was taken away and we were forced to toggle it?

I don't like having one control that does two things. When I'm riding my bicycle, I don't lean left to turn left, then lean left again to go straight.

Toggling has often caused problems and does have a significant impact on gameplay and strategy. For example, let's say a guy is shooting at me and I want to crouch to lower my profile. Combats usually happen pretty fast. So I smudge my finger down on the key, maybe I didn't hit it squarely and I'm not sure it registered, am I behind cover or am I just going to stand there? I better hit the key again to make sure. Oh, now I hit it twice, I'm standing back up, I died. Or maybe I don't hit the key again but it didn't register the first time, so again I'm just standing there and I died. You may not admit it but I bet this has happened to you.

With hold to crouch this never happens, because I know that every time I press the key, there will be one result ... and absolutely never the opposite of what I want.

It's much more convenient for me to exert a slight pressure on my pinky than it is to remove my middle finger from WASD to change my status. Yes, in some shooters I even like to crouch or stand up while moving backwards. The default control scheme denies me this option.

Maybe we should map all controls to a single key. Tap X once to crouch, twice to stand up, three times to move left, four times to move right, five times to fire your weapon ... think of how convenient it would be to free up your other fingers!

Personally, I am able to budget my 10 fingers in games just fine. Honestly, with my other fingers resting on WASD 99% of the time, where else is my pinky going to go that's so important?

"Hold to crouch" used to be a default option in FPS games (and of course still is on many) - toggling as the standard only came about after the rise of consoles meant people were playing games with just their thumbs.

I'm glad the default works for you. Obviously it's just fine for a lot of people. I find it doesn't give me the control I want, that many other shooters do give me. I was hoping for better from a game rumored to be the most customizable shooter out there.

[jbonesmd]

So I can see your sense of humor is really down on the lower end of the scale. Your bicycle riding analogy is nonsensical.

Yes you're right, everyone has a finger slip on a key sometimes, that's the reality of using a keyboard for anything.

I would bet most players can move with W,S,A,D, and crouch up or down while doing so without tying there fingers into a knot.

Your suggestion of binding all controls to one key for my benefit is wonderfully sarcastic, but once again is lacking in the humor department. Humor helps to take the sting out of it. Ouch.

I would respectfully disagree with your statement about " budgeting your 10 fingers in a game just fine", based on your own comments.

You are correct in saying that obviously it's just fine for lots of people, but just not you. And lastly I would say if you haven't exceeded the two hour play time limit, you might just refund the game because I think Arma 3 is clearly handicapping to your style of play.

[Zombra]

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

So I can see your sense of humor is really down on the lower end of the scale.

Thank you for escalating to personal attacks so quickly. There's nothing I like better than starting out frustrated and having a community member insult me instead of trying to help.

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

Your bicycle riding analogy is nonsensical.

Having one button do two different things is bad design, and the analogy is perfectly apt in illustrating that. It is nonsensical. That's exactly why I'm continually surprised when games incorporate this structure into their UI.

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

Yes you're right, everyone has a finger slip on a key sometimes, that's the reality of using a keyboard for anything.

So is it smart or stupid to have a design that exacerbates that weakness? Would it be better or worse to have a design that makes this completely not a problem?

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

I would bet most players can move with W,S,A,D, and crouch up or down while doing so without tying there fingers into a knot.

Curious, what finger do you hit X with? Not really picking on you specifically, but if you're using a WASD finger you're wasting time. You could be moving while crouching, or moving while standing up. Instead you have to stop moving, crouch, then start moving again. I mean, okay, if that's how you want to play, I'm happy for you. Some of us prefer more fluid control.

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

Your suggestion of binding all controls to one key for my benefit is wonderfully sarcastic, but once again is lacking in the humor department. Humor helps to take the sting out of it. Ouch.

It's okay if you didn't think it funny, but reductio ad absurdum is a perfectly valid debate technique.

Let me dial it back a bit: imagine if WASD were all toggles. You pressed W to move forward, then pressed W again to stop. Would this be a superior control method? Or inferior? Why? If that were the default, would you like an option to switch to the other method?

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

I would respectfully disagree with your statement about " budgeting your 10 fingers in a game just fine", based on your own comments.

Honest, I can. I can even play with crappy toggle controls and do okay. However, I prefer better designed UI. Is that so unreasonable?

Originally posted by jbonesmd:

You are correct in saying that obviously it's just fine for lots of people, but just not you. And lastly I would say if you haven't exceeded the two hour play time limit, you might just refund the game because I think Arma 3 is clearly handicapping to your style of play.

I prefer not to throw something away at the first sign of trouble. I'd like to make Arma 3 work as there is clearly a lot to love here. It's just disappointing to find a glaring weakness like this in the first 10 seconds of play and I wish the developers had thought to include a common interface option.

[ThunderStorm]

Originally posted by Zombra:

Thanks *URC* 2020. That's disappointing. This is a basic control option in many games. So much for the most customizable shooter out there. :d4_cry:

Can someone explain the actual difference between "crouch (toggle)" and "crouch / stand up"?

Is a bit off time ago i did look in my controls settings so i hope my answer is correct (crouch toggle deafult).

DIt a try out whit crouch toggle ,, i need stand up toggle to use crouch toggle for the movement action stanup / crouch.
So i use your keybind idea Key left shift,,,, key left shift for crouch and key W (forward) to stand up but the left shift let me crouch only so i use key left shift for a second action to hit shift 2 time ( you see in controll 2x left shift) as a example i bind it throw a grenade.

"""Can someone explain the actual difference""" i think more, arma have many controlls to use in game, it gifs you more space in your own wish about the best way to set your key binds.

[Zombra]

I'm not sure I completely understand, but thank you again *URC* 2020

[Reticuli]

It's certainly more realistic to have a key hold to crouch, as it's not something you do in real life constantly. The default speed should also be walking, not jogging, and crouch should use up more stamina than not crouching. Even crouching while not walking should take some tiny stamina away.

[TheHemp]

Crouching takes time. Hold crouch makes sense in games that have instant crouch. This game does not have instant crouch, as it's a milsim before it's a first person shooter.

You absolutely will be spending lots of time in specific stances, and hold to crouch would make half stances and corner peeking that much more clunky.

I prefer hold to crouch instead of toggle in most games. This is not one of those games.

Don't revive dead threads.