Fix the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LMGs

[TheHoggle]

How is it there are multiple releases of content but never has someone thought maybe to fix the imbalcnes within the existing game?? LMG's are basically the #1 gun in every facet of the game. You can't out damage them at close range, they drop any helicopter in mere seconds, you can come to a full stop and turn on someone and win almost every duel, their range is that of a sniper rifle, there is ZERO recoil on them either mounted or free standing. More or less once you hit level 28 and get the Navid / Zafir there is zero need to level or purchase anymore. Every AR and SMG is complete trash in comparison.

[El Berl]

I say increase the sway and heavily increase their dispersion if at all possible. The big problem with LMGs, especially the SPMG and the Navid 9.3x64mm, is that they're about 50-75% as accurate as a dedicated marksman rifle in that same caliber.

I say reduce that to maybe 5.5 MOA, which means there is a 5.5 inch spread at 100 yards, 11 inch spread at 200 yards, and so on. Doing the math, that's dispersion = 0.001599; in the CfgWeapons.

[TheHoggle]

anything at this point would be huge. I mean if I am going building to building clearing them out with an SMG there should be no scenario where I can be outshot by an LMG that is not proned or bipod'd on the floor... An LMG is designed for supression and helicopter resistance, not something to run around with destroying everything in its path. If you hold the trigger down on an LMG and you aren't Rambo then that thing should shoot straight in to the air.

[El Berl]

Originally posted by Hoggle:

anything at this point would be huge. I mean if I am going building to building clearing them out with an SMG there should be no scenario where I can be outshot by an LMG that is not proned or bipod'd on the floor... An LMG is designed for supression and helicopter resistance, not something to run around with destroying everything in its path. If you hold the trigger down on an LMG and you aren't Rambo then that thing should shoot straight in to the air.

Newton's third rule. An LMG actually kicks less than a same-caliber DMR. LMGs are for suppression, but they're usable for heavy assault ops. They are NOT quick traversing.

Oh, and SMGs fire handgun cartridges so you absolutely can be outshot by a rifle caliber if body armor is involved. Just make their weight more punishing and you're set.

[TheHoggle]

The damage could probably be completely overlooked if there was any sort of realistic recoil. face to face and LMG firing at an SMG or even an AR would have such awful recoil that it would be almost uncontrolable. I can't use a Vector in game to snipe across the map but I can do that with an LMG, hell even medium range an SMG would be a pretty tough task for getting a kill. The point is more or less that the LMG should not be a jack of all trades, it forces people to use them to even compete in most servers as the Navid is top 1% for use and damage. There needs to be some degree of balance for guns and their rolls.

[BRODAD3U5]

KOTH...balance...yeaaaahhhhhhhhh right.

[SSgt Avenger.at]

You just learned one of the most important rules for a squad leader: Put your guy(s) with the LMG/HMG into use at all time.

MG's no matter what kind are the most valuable weapon in a infantry group, even more than a recoilless rifle - and that's for a reason... pretty much all the things you mentioned yourself.

The "balance" factor of MG's is their weight. I HATED to carry that damn thing on marches, but it was pure fun to shoot it. I can only talk about the German MG3, which is designated as MG74 in the Austrian army. It weighs 12kg unloaded and is 120cm long - making it quite a b*tch to carry and that's not all... We use this MG as a two-man oparated weapon - one guy with the gun and a small drum magazine, and one with the 200 bullet ammo crates, reserve barrels and the tools for maintenances, but if you're unlucky you have to carry all that alone, so two crates with 200 bulltes, weighing 7.5kg each, some tools.. I would say around 1.5kg and the two reserve barrels. I forgot how much they weigh, but you can imagine how heavy this all is by now. Oh and of course the standard issued gear, vest (unarmored) backpack with all the gear you need to stay out for one day - again ~30kg. So all in all an unlucky machinegunner has to carry more than 60kg of gear... and ingame you are such an unlucky guy.

So this should be felt ingame in my opinion. The character has to be exhausted much quicker and as someone stated already the dispersion has to be muuuuch worse. As my instructor once said during a shooting drill:"if you don't handle this b*tch properly, it will f*ck you instead". For any MG with a caliber of 7.62x51 and bigger.. don't even try to fire bursts while standing, from the shoulder - you'll hit nothing and all you have afterwards is no ammo and heavy pain in your shoulder. There is one standing shooting stance we've learned, but that's only for sudden emergency cases. In such case you have the sling around your neck, the right hand on the grip and the left hand is holding the bipod, pulling it into your hip, but this is meant just to suppress the enemy for a brief moment rahter than fighting them effectively.

SMG's are designed to fight against unarmored targets at close range. They are lightweight and have very high stopping power at close range, but MG's have high stopping power at close, medium and long range. The only disadvantage as stated above - the weight of the guns, making them hard to move around and bringing into a proper fireing position.

It's all a matter of what kind of enemy you have to fight:
Fighting unarmored targets at close range? Bigger caliber like 9mm, .45 ACP will do the trick. These are low velocity bullets (9mm - 380m/s) which sacrifice penetration and recoil for damage.

Fighting at medium range these calibers will struggle, so you want to use smaller ones like 5.56mm (.223 - up to 990m/s), or 5.45mm also better suited for armor penetration, but do less damage. They have very little recoil too, but the bullet is to lightweight to be effective at long ranges.

Fighting at long ranges you wanna use something slightly bigger, like 7.62mm (.308 - up to 830m/s). These kind of ammo is the compromise between the two above.

If you want to f*ck up everything from close to long range, then you want 12.7mm (.50) at the cost of very high weight.

ArmA3 is more of a simulater than a game after all and the fact that a MG outguns pretty much everything is the bitter truth. War is hell... nothing will change that.

[Warlocc]

Play with stamina enabled. Worst guns in the game at that point.

Sounds like the KOTH guys are the problem.

[IM SORRY BUFFALO]

Originally posted by Warlocc:

Play with stamina enabled. Worst guns in the game at that point.

Sounds like the KOTH guys are the problem.

if he played with non arcade style missions that didnt have stamina set to false then he wouldnt be posting this thread lol

[Double Deez Nuts]

ah. tower rushing with a navid and recon speed class. doesnt get better than this lads

[Warlocc]

Originally posted by IM SORRY BUFFALO:

Originally posted by Warlocc:

Play with stamina enabled. Worst guns in the game at that point.

Sounds like the KOTH guys are the problem.

if he played with non arcade style missions that didnt have stamina set to false then he wouldnt be posting this thread lol

My point exactly.

[Double Deez Nuts]

stamina is on all the time at hostiletakeover. doesnt stop people from using them lal

[El Berl]

Originally posted by 🌋↪ToƦcH↩🌋:

stamina is on all the time at hostiletakeover. doesnt stop people from using them lal

That's because the stock-game stamina model is designed for these kinds of HostileTakeover scrubs. ACE3's stamina model would bust these LMG Commandos' arses in no time!

[TheHoggle]

Well there would need to be people on a server for it to be a thing. Hostile Takeover servers generally are the only ones with people playing on them consistantly. So before you start pretending to be some insane talent and calling others scrubs maybe consider some people enjoy playing with other people and not a small goup of 10-12 people on a dead server.

[El Berl]

Originally posted by Hoggle:

Well there would need to be people on a server for it to be a thing. Hostile Takeover servers generally are the only ones with people playing on them consistantly. So before you start pretending to be some insane talent and calling others scrubs maybe consider some people enjoy playing with other people and not a small goup of 10-12 people on a dead server.

And you take my comment as if it were completely serious.

It's a statement about how arcade-esque the stock-game stamina model is, and how broken things like KOTH are as a result. A small group of 10-12 people is often superior if you actually get to interact with them, and every time I've seen KOTH go around it's been a clustercrap. Quality over quantity.

[TheHoggle]

I wouldnt say that KOTH is low quality. You can get some very intense and fun games, the issue is taken with the game forcing you to use an LMG. Sometimes its nice to use a realistic gun for clearing houses and towers. KOTH seems the only game mode most people play. I have heard of some others but nobody really talks about them much unless you join a community that okays them together