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Drakeema 2 giu 2019, ore 12:09

This would be a lot better if...

The enemies and players were actually 3D :( I'll still probably buy and play it, though.

(Huuuge props for creating anything inspired by Arx Fatalis. Such an incredible gem of a game)

Ultima modifica da Drakeema; 2 giu 2019, ore 12:10

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Visualizzazione di 46-60 commenti su 66

Drakeema 8 giu 2019, ore 13:19

Messaggio originale di Gameo:
The problem is that they look incredibly bad and animated just as horribly.
The disparity between the textures, lighting and the enemies is astronomical, quite an eye sore.

lol, are we both looking at the same thing here?

Yeah, well obviously it's a bit of a modder hackjob, with re-used textures and stuff. Nothing that can't be improved with professional animators & artists.

You could turn on brightskins, if they're too hard for you too see. Everything looks normal to me. Far from an eyesore(unless you're a hardcore 2D purist, then all 3D and realistic graphics would annoy you))

Ultima modifica da Drakeema; 8 giu 2019, ore 13:20

#46

baddude1337 ha Hedon Bloodrite

8 giu 2019, ore 13:31

Messaggio originale di Gameo:
So this is the kind of blasphemous atrocity you'd like to see in your games? lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ch8yUKwvOM&t=

Yeah, no thanks man. That's completely and utterly horrid in every conceivable way.

Yeah, that looks pretty damn horrible honestly. I usually don't mind some HD texture packs (take the Thief 1 and 2 ones for instance), but that looks like a cobbled together Unity asset flip on the Steam store. No consistency in any of the visual design.

Drakeema, as for the general 3d thing: Nah. This game is going for a very distinct visual style with the hand-drawn art, which I love. It sounds like you need the graphics to be realistic to get immersed in the experience. Which is fine, but that means this game probably isn't for you. Which is a shame, as past the graphics this game is very much inspired by titles like Arx Fatalis and Thief from a gameplay design perspective.

Too many games these days go for raw power to have some dudes ass hair be rendered in thousands of polygons, it's nice for games such as this to have a more distinctive look. Not to mention going for pure realistic graphics means the game will age a lot worse than great 2d art. There's a reason Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night still looks amazing compared to most other games in the PS1's library.

Ultima modifica da baddude1337; 8 giu 2019, ore 13:32

#47

Drakeema 8 giu 2019, ore 13:42

Messaggio originale di baddude1337:
There's a reason Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night still looks amazing compared to most other games in the PS1's library.

That is a side scroller/platformer, not a first-person game in a 3D environment. An illogical comparison with no relation, IMO.

Messaggio originale di baddude1337:
Yeah, that looks pretty damn horrible honestly

Damn, you guys are hardcore art critics, huh? :5 I've never reached that stage of eliteness. I disagree that popular/common/highly praised 3D games lack artistic cohesiveness in the characters/enemies(which this mod apparently does, but I do not see anything too obvious), though.

Ultima modifica da Drakeema; 8 giu 2019, ore 13:45

#48

baddude1337 ha Hedon Bloodrite

8 giu 2019, ore 14:05

Messaggio originale di Drakeema:
That is a side scroller/platformer, not a first-person game in a 3D environment. An illogical comparison with no relation, IMO.

I wasn't making a comparison to any particular game, more a general statement of 2d vs 3d. It's not like I hate 3d games or anything, but I find 2d stands up a lot better than polygonal models.

Messaggio originale di Drakeema:
Damn, you guys are hardcore art critics, huh? :5 I've never reached that stage of eliteness. I disagree that popular/common/highly praised 3D games lack artistic cohesiveness in the characters/enemies(which this mod apparently does, but I do not see anything too obvious), though.

Again, not the point I was making. That comment was aimed at that video specifically, not 3d games in general. For that particular Doom remake, my main issue besides the animations (forgivable being an early alpha) and models (the guns look higher quality than the enemies, which look like a weird mash of late 90's fps models and 2010's texures, not good!) is the level design. You can absolutely do a HD remake of doom, but you can't keep the same abstract level design and just bump up the texture resolution as it clashes with the realistic weapon models and the like.

Ultima modifica da baddude1337; 8 giu 2019, ore 14:06

#49

Spooky

8 giu 2019, ore 14:30

This entire thing reads like a troll thread and I'm surprised people are still falling for it

#50

Drakeema 8 giu 2019, ore 14:58

Messaggio originale di baddude1337:
I wasn't making a comparison to any particular game

You were, though. You used a specific game as an example in your game aging argument. Bananas to apples. 2D in a 3D world is a totally different beast(an illusion-breaking one) than 2D in a 2D world, that I don't think relate. Obviously we can't compare a 2D PS1 game to a 3D PS1 game, since 3D tech was so infantile back then, so comparing 2D to 2D games is a little strange? The best art wins, right?

Messaggio originale di baddude1337:
For that particular Doom remake, my main issue is the level design. You can absolutely do a HD remake of doom, but you can't keep the same abstract level design and just bump up the texture resolution as it clashes with the realistic weapon models and the like.

Ah, I see. Fair enough. Of course I'd love to see the levels fully detailed to modern spec, but I'd be happy enough with just a full 3D conversion :D

Ultima modifica da Drakeema; 8 giu 2019, ore 15:02

#51

Dark Redshift ha Hedon Bloodrite

8 giu 2019, ore 15:35

Messaggio originale di Zan_HedonDev:
If you mean actual 3D models, then trust me, no. It would be horrible.
If you mean 2D sprites shot from 3D models instead of digitally drawn as they are currently, well yeah they'd look more consistent but I feel like the jank of the hand made animations has its own charm, and most people agree with me too.

Ultima modifica da Dark Redshift; 8 giu 2019, ore 15:41

#52

Sundowner

8 giu 2019, ore 22:51

Can the doom engine even support 3d models for enemies?

I think the sprites are quite charming, though they need some polish. In the case of Zan, the Orcs they and the magic elves they need more shading to give the sprite some more depth, and they need left hand side models rather than simply being mirrored. The issue probably extends to the other enemies but you don't get to see them as close.

#53

Elthrael

9 giu 2019, ore 5:58

Messaggio originale di Solo Wing Eureka:
Can the doom engine even support 3d models for enemies?

I was just about to ask this. I'm no expert, but I haven't seen any mods or TCs that use 3D models for ENEMIES. Items, some of them, but enemies?

#54

baddude1337 ha Hedon Bloodrite

9 giu 2019, ore 10:28

Messaggio originale di eS:
Messaggio originale di Solo Wing Eureka:
Can the doom engine even support 3d models for enemies?

I was just about to ask this. I'm no expert, but I haven't seen any mods or TCs that use 3D models for ENEMIES. Items, some of them, but enemies?

Depends on the sourceport, but yes it can:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/total-chaos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8yh_Se6yg

#55

Drakeema 9 giu 2019, ore 10:45

Messaggio originale di baddude1337:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8yh_Se6yg

That's pretty interesting looking lol. Very smooth, graceful animation blending :) Chill Doom, anyone..?

I wonder how the overlay map in Doom was created and rendered. Just like the overlay map in Turok 2. So detailed, precise, and clean.

Ultima modifica da Drakeema; 9 giu 2019, ore 11:24

#56

Elthrael

9 giu 2019, ore 13:49

Messaggio originale di Drakeema:
Messaggio originale di baddude1337:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8yh_Se6yg
That's pretty interesting looking lol. Very smooth, graceful animation blending :) Chill Doom, anyone..?

I wonder how the overlay map in Doom was created and rendered. Just like the overlay map in Turok 2. So detailed, precise, and clean.

Lemme rephrase that. I don't think GZDoom supports 3D models for enemies - which is the port Hedon was built on. But like I said, I'm no expert, just curious.

#57

Gameo

9 giu 2019, ore 20:42

Messaggio originale di eS:
Messaggio originale di Drakeema:
That's pretty interesting looking lol. Very smooth, graceful animation blending :) Chill Doom, anyone..?

I wonder how the overlay map in Doom was created and rendered. Just like the overlay map in Turok 2. So detailed, precise, and clean.

Lemme rephrase that. I don't think GZDoom supports 3D models for enemies - which is the port Hedon was built on. But like I said, I'm no expert, just curious.

You mean... this gzdoom?.. and these atrocious looking 3D models?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=2Ch8yUKwvOM

#58

Vanta 24 giu 2019, ore 4:33

Messaggio originale di eS:
Messaggio originale di Drakeema:
That's pretty interesting looking lol. Very smooth, graceful animation blending :) Chill Doom, anyone..?

I wonder how the overlay map in Doom was created and rendered. Just like the overlay map in Turok 2. So detailed, precise, and clean.

Lemme rephrase that. I don't think GZDoom supports 3D models for enemies - which is the port Hedon was built on. But like I said, I'm no expert, just curious.

It does, but generally its not a great idea to use 3D models for enemies in GZDooM unless you know what you are doing, go check out Hunter's Moon for GZdoom, basically everything is 3D.

#59