Pay to Win. A simple concept that people get wrong.

[Bloody Stool]

Just one example. People say the following is not pay to win.
If I pay to get a horse that makes me faster
so I can get to resource nodes fast
so I can make money faster
so I can buy better gear faster
That’s the very definition of pay to win.
If you pay for advantage in a game then that is pay to win.
Why do they not allow performance-enhancing drugs in sport?
Answer: It gives you an advantage.
I think everyone that says the above is NOT Pay-to-Win knows it is but does not want to admit it.
If you still cannot see what I am pointing out, well, then never start a business because even the money you pay for the design of your business cards is about getting the advantage.
Jul 19, 2021 — Amazon's New World has confirmed that they “do not want this to be a pay-to-win experience.”

[Slorty]

What mount is faster than the others? I Need to buy it.

[Wampum Biskit]

PTW , requires you to be able to WIN something , what do you WIN at this game ? you are getting a real life monetary gain out of it ? Are you able to make a living out of this game that pays your bills ?

because BOTH of your other examples can and make you gain monetarily in real life , that's why the "drug-enhancing sport" and the "business design" are bad comparisons.

Now we can argue semantics of PTW , i neither agree nor disagree with the "PTW" structure of this game , to me it's more of a grey area personally , i don't play PVP so the whole "PTW" isn't an issue to me , and even if i would play PVP , i prolly wouldn't have an issue with it UNLESS you would earn a real life gain out of the advantage.

say for instance they would have a leaderboard and the top 10 would get premium currency or something similar , then yes that i would have a problem with.

[Nyt]

Pay 2 win started with season 1, with the paid battle pass giving you currency and gear.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Wampum Biskit:

PTW , requires you to be able to WIN something , what do you WIN at this game ? you are getting a real life monetary gain out of it ? Are you able to make a living out of this game that pays your bills ?

because BOTH of your other examples can and make you gain monetarily in real life , that's why the "drug-enhancing sport" and the "business design" are bad comparisons.

Now we can argue semantics of PTW , i neither agree nor disagree with the "PTW" structure of this game , to me it's more of a grey area personally , i don't play PVP so the whole "PTW" isn't an issue to me , and even if i would play PVP , i prolly wouldn't have an issue with it UNLESS you would earn a real life gain out of the advantage.

say for instance they would have a leaderboard and the top 10 would get premium currency or something similar , then yes that i would have a problem with.

That's the first time I heard "its only p2w if you get real world benefits" as a defense for p2w.

[Noma]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Originally posted by Wampum Biskit:

PTW , requires you to be able to WIN something , what do you WIN at this game ? you are getting a real life monetary gain out of it ? Are you able to make a living out of this game that pays your bills ?

because BOTH of your other examples can and make you gain monetarily in real life , that's why the "drug-enhancing sport" and the "business design" are bad comparisons.

Now we can argue semantics of PTW , i neither agree nor disagree with the "PTW" structure of this game , to me it's more of a grey area personally , i don't play PVP so the whole "PTW" isn't an issue to me , and even if i would play PVP , i prolly wouldn't have an issue with it UNLESS you would earn a real life gain out of the advantage.

say for instance they would have a leaderboard and the top 10 would get premium currency or something similar , then yes that i would have a problem with.

That's the first time I heard "its only p2w if you get real world benefits" as a defense for p2w.

I guess aimbots and wall hacks are fine then, since cheaters don't earn anything in real life by using them.

[Dogtatokun]

Originally posted by Wampum Biskit:

PTW , requires you to be able to WIN something , what do you WIN at this game ? you are getting a real life monetary gain out of it ? Are you able to make a living out of this game that pays your bills ?

because BOTH of your other examples can and make you gain monetarily in real life , that's why the "drug-enhancing sport" and the "business design" are bad comparisons.

Now we can argue semantics of PTW , i neither agree nor disagree with the "PTW" structure of this game , to me it's more of a grey area personally , i don't play PVP so the whole "PTW" isn't an issue to me , and even if i would play PVP , i prolly wouldn't have an issue with it UNLESS you would earn a real life gain out of the advantage.

say for instance they would have a leaderboard and the top 10 would get premium currency or something similar , then yes that i would have a problem with.

You win time back that can be otherwise invested elsewhere.

[hbyw618]

A great topic so far.

[hbyw618]

Originally posted by Evol:

Personally I don't think anyone misunderstands the concept of pay to win, just some people accept it as a norm, much of the online gaming industry uses it as a tool to make short term sales.

Generally they know their product will have a "life time" due to their game not being that great in the scope of similar games, so they release, fleece, shut down, re-release, re fleece, or a similar combination.

In one hand the people that P2W enjoy punishing the players that don't, and the other hand those that don't P2W gain a hatred to the whole concept, if you think about it, they are educating people to hate it, which is a good thing really.

Don't hate the players hate the company.

It's true, After years of cultivation and domestication, this has become natural

[NashEquil]

If you choose to play an older version of the game, and do not buy the expansion or battle passes, then you deserve to have less. They designed the game this way. It is thier game, not yours. Support the company, don't support them, play the game or quit the game. Simple. It's your decision.

[hbyw618]

So can we stay and show our opinions? I will not buy just talking here?

[Rvvens]

Originally posted by NashEquil:

If you choose to play an older version of the game, and do not buy the expansion or battle passes, then you deserve to have less. They designed the game this way. It is thier game, not yours. Support the company, don't support them, play the game or quit the game. Simple. It's your decision.

I can find fairness in having less when not upgrading to the latest content; what I will never find fair is having less because for whatever reason content that was available now is not because you have not upgraded to the latest content yet (by paying again).

For instance: if you dont buy Dragonflight you are stucked in Shadowlands and you wont have your drakes to fly with (I guess) but flying mounts will still be available for you. I hope the example works.

[ThugDragonz]

Originally posted by Wampum Biskit:

PTW , requires you to be able to WIN something , what do you WIN at this game ? you are getting a real life monetary gain out of it ? Are you able to make a living out of this game that pays your bills ?

because BOTH of your other examples can and make you gain monetarily in real life , that's why the "drug-enhancing sport" and the "business design" are bad comparisons.

Now we can argue semantics of PTW , i neither agree nor disagree with the "PTW" structure of this game , to me it's more of a grey area personally , i don't play PVP so the whole "PTW" isn't an issue to me , and even if i would play PVP , i prolly wouldn't have an issue with it UNLESS you would earn a real life gain out of the advantage.

say for instance they would have a leaderboard and the top 10 would get premium currency or something similar , then yes that i would have a problem with.

So you're saying mobile games are NOT P2W??? Because you aren't getting money or what ever from it. I agree with the OP for sure this game is P2W now.

[Wolfsoldier5]

Today P2W just means faster progression. Back then you actually bought very broken items.

At this point it doesn't even matter anymore because even the game itself doesn't sell broken items or means for you to progress faster the players themselves will.

Just look at WoW, people just straight up buy Mythic+ runs, raid runs, tittle runs, etc.
In games like Tibia people will simply buy the strongest items without having to do quests or farming for it.

"Gamers" today just want things without the grind and even then if the game allows trading, guess what is going to happen.

Funniest thing I see people say is "I actually work, I don't have time to game all day" and yet they play MMORPGs, the type of game that requires the most time commitment of them all.

[Wampum Biskit]

Originally posted by LvGamer:

Originally posted by Wampum Biskit:

PTW , requires you to be able to WIN something , what do you WIN at this game ? you are getting a real life monetary gain out of it ? Are you able to make a living out of this game that pays your bills ?

because BOTH of your other examples can and make you gain monetarily in real life , that's why the "drug-enhancing sport" and the "business design" are bad comparisons.

Now we can argue semantics of PTW , i neither agree nor disagree with the "PTW" structure of this game , to me it's more of a grey area personally , i don't play PVP so the whole "PTW" isn't an issue to me , and even if i would play PVP , i prolly wouldn't have an issue with it UNLESS you would earn a real life gain out of the advantage.

say for instance they would have a leaderboard and the top 10 would get premium currency or something similar , then yes that i would have a problem with.

So you're saying mobile games are NOT P2W??? Because you aren't getting money or what ever from it. I agree with the OP for sure this game is P2W now.

I'm against PTW if you can monetarily gain from a PTW situation , which i stated , a lot of mobile games you can get premium currency you can spend on micro transactions thus not having to spend any of your own real life money , hence getting a monetarily real life advantage.

[banetrapperdev]

lvl60 with 625GS vs lvl65 700GS is the PayToWin part. Don't get it twisted.