A PC mmo with only 5 skillbuttons ?.

[Grimaldus]

It's my firm opinion that any real MMO - especially PC - should at the very minimum
have a skillbar with the buttons 1-9 and options for more skillbars as well as options
to keybindings to any toolbar buttons.

One of the main reasons why i quit ESO was simply because it was consolized with
only 5 buttons for skills (without switching UI) and that leaves for very boring gameplay.

In MMO's i often use 6-7 attacks, special buttons for any CC-skills, and a toolbar
set aside for anything with buffs & skills like profession or ingame-macros .
And special attacks on either of the mouse 3-5.

New world seems like it's limited to 5 buttons.. not very PC-like mmo.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by MugHug:

I think some seem to forget that publishers try to target modern games to a broader. more casual player base then the old hard-core players of years gone by. One of the ways to do this is simplifying the number of options in combat to reduce the information overload.

Sucks for many of us 'hard core' players but not much we can do about it really.

The other option is to go back to the older games or the smaller more specialized MMOs instead of the 'Walmart' MMORPGs we get now.

they coudlve at least given us 5x2 together with 2 ultimates like ESO

eso has the biggest casual audience of any mmos and even they can wrap their heads around that, i can even form raids and invite casuals to casual veteran raiding content without even looking for achievements or anything

[MugHug]

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

Originally posted by MugHug:

I think some seem to forget that publishers try to target modern games to a broader. more casual player base then the old hard-core players of years gone by. One of the ways to do this is simplifying the number of options in combat to reduce the information overload.

Sucks for many of us 'hard core' players but not much we can do about it really.

The other option is to go back to the older games or the smaller more specialized MMOs instead of the 'Walmart' MMORPGs we get now.

they coudlve at least given us 5x2 together with 2 ultimates like ESO

eso has the biggest casual audience of any mmos and even they can wrap their heads around that, i can even form raids and invite casuals to casual veteran raiding content without even looking for achievements or anything

Understand where you are coming from.

But somehow I do not think I really want to know what Jeff thinks of his typical Amazon client beyond being a source of money. And with him not being a gamer he most likely thinks less of us. :(

[xaan]

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

positioning, spacing and timing just like all other mmos just like moving debuffs between players or placing them where they cant nuke the team, this is older than the internet

On the surfafe, yes, but also not. Not to the same extent.
1: Take evading for example. In WoW, Evading is a stat. You will automatically evade x% of attacks made against you. You have no agency here. It either triggers or not due to the whims of RNG. Compare to New World: Evasion is very much solely dependent on player agency. If ->YOU<- do not trigger the evade ->in time<-, your Charakter doesn't evade. Same for blocking.

2: Consider the opposite from the attacker's perspective. If you press a button to trigger a skill, all prerequisite conditions for the skill to fire are crunched numbers in the background. Compare to New World: you can swing your Sword at any time and in any direction you want. Checking prerequisite conditions (range, timing) is YOUR responsibility. If you trigger your strike early and hit only air, it's your own fault, not some bad RNG luck.

3: Animaion lock expands this further. If you trigger a skill and your opponent rolls away under the strike, you are now locked into the animation and vulnerable to counter attack. Something simply not posible in piano-bar-MMOs where players cannot manually evade.

Such granularity is simply not present in piano-bar-MMOs. They ->need<- such large numbers of skills to offset this. For New World it's not only not necessary, it would also quickly become detrimental because the much finer granularity in timing, spacing and positioning would be too much when also combined with the abundance of skills of piano-bar-MMOs.

[Grimaldus]

Originally posted by MugHug:

Sucks for many of us 'hard core' players but not much we can do about it really.

What we CAN do, is to not buy and play it, put our foot down and
say that we won't play dumbed down simplified games.

[MugHug]

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

Originally posted by MugHug:

Sucks for many of us 'hard core' players but not much we can do about it really.

What we CAN do, is to not buy and play it, put our foot down and
say that we won't play dumbed down simplified games.

Not exactly like there are many other options out there. I must have already tried or played virtually every MMO available in the western hemisphere. Pretty much know WoW, ESO, EQ2, FF14 and GW2 plus others like the back of my hand. I need a new world to explore. :)

[Martok-Worf]

It's awesome, about time we get an MMO that isn't spam 400 skills. Those games focus on literally just being able to hit buttons in a certain order to play the game vs any actual skill and usually devolve into people writing macros for their skills because it's so damn tedious.

[MugHug]

Thinking about it my Lvl 270 Champion Necromancer that I am leveling in ESO at the moment basically uses a very simple key rotation that would not be out of place in New World. And it is effective overland and in dungeons. I can play the toon half asleep.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by MugHug:

Thinking about it my Lvl 270 Champion Necromancer that I am leveling in ESO at the moment basically uses a very simple key rotation that would not be out of place in New World. And it is effective overland and in dungeons. I can play the toon half asleep.

You can do that with a lot of mmo´s tbh. I still think this mmo is on the simplistic side, not because of the limited "skills" and "abilities" but because of the whole flow of combat and how you act and react.

[Lagfactor]

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

Originally posted by MugHug:

Sucks for many of us 'hard core' players but not much we can do about it really.

What we CAN do, is to not buy and play it, put our foot down and
say that we won't play dumbed down simplified games.

Sorry to disagree but NW is actually a step up from the button smashing, rote skill rotations MMO out there. The action approach really gives more depth to the combat. I was hoping for the game and for once havent been disappointed. A first since Eve Online, DAoC and EQ2

[renik]

Originally posted by Lagfactor:

Originally posted by Grimaldus:

What we CAN do, is to not buy and play it, put our foot down and
say that we won't play dumbed down simplified games.

Sorry to disagree but NW is actually a step up from the button smashing, rote skill rotations MMO out there. The action approach really gives more depth to the combat. I was hoping for the game and for once havent been disappointed. A first since Eve Online, DAoC and EQ2

Thats true and untrue at the same time.

Right now, in it's current state, instead of button smashing a skill rotation, all you do is button smash left click. This is because mobs don't have any mechanics, and nothing is actually challenging. The fun could be there though if they work on it more.

I havent' actually seen a mob (I think JoshOG is up in his level 30's now) that has mechanics. Either everything dies way too fast for a mechanic to happen, or the mobs just straight up don't have them. So far the action approach here seems to miss it's mark just due to the hollowness of all the monsters. Even watching Tim clear the level 25 dungeon at level 13 didn't pose much of a challenge once they got a pseudo healer. Not sure if they ever cleared the bosses due to how hard the unavoidable damage was hitting for, but the fact that they cleared most of the dungeon 12 levels earlier than intended says something for the PVE difficulty.

On the PVP side of things, the combat looks like a lot of fun; but you can tell it was abandoned in favor of PVE, and they just havent gotten quite there with the PVE yet. I've enjoyed watching more PVP combat from the various streamers, than the mindless left click mow everything down PVE content.

I'm really hoping they have a large patch in store that updates the AI of the mobs, gives them mechanics, the necessity to have to dodge roll and avoid mechanics, and overall strengthens them.

[Vazkulator]

Originally posted by xaan:

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

positioning, spacing and timing just like all other mmos just like moving debuffs between players or placing them where they cant nuke the team, this is older than the internet

On the surfafe, yes, but also not. Not to the same extent.
1: Take evading for example. In WoW, Evading is a stat. You will automatically evade x% of attacks made against you. You have no agency here. It either triggers or not due to the whims of RNG. Compare to New World: Evasion is very much solely dependent on player agency. If ->YOU<- do not trigger the evade ->in time<-, your Charakter doesn't evade. Same for blocking.

2: Consider the opposite from the attacker's perspective. If you press a button to trigger a skill, all prerequisite conditions for the skill to fire are crunched numbers in the background. Compare to New World: you can swing your Sword at any time and in any direction you want. Checking prerequisite conditions (range, timing) is YOUR responsibility. If you trigger your strike early and hit only air, it's your own fault, not some bad RNG luck.

3: Animaion lock expands this further. If you trigger a skill and your opponent rolls away under the strike, you are now locked into the animation and vulnerable to counter attack. Something simply not posible in piano-bar-MMOs where players cannot manually evade.

Such granularity is simply not present in piano-bar-MMOs. They ->need<- such large numbers of skills to offset this. For New World it's not only not necessary, it would also quickly become detrimental because the much finer granularity in timing, spacing and positioning would be too much when also combined with the abundance of skills of piano-bar-MMOs.

1, eso covers all of this for what its worth but still a pointless argument since positioning and situational awareness in form of block, dodge roll or simply having more complex healing play with tab targetting to individually dispell/decurse and so forth still serves the exact same purpose.

2, crunshed to numbers, what ? huh ??? no i have no clue of what youre talking about here, more abilities with various different purposes to control the fight, burst or playing more defensively, being more supportive, leaning more towards the executes or getting out of cc types of stuff, dethreat, crowd control and so forth is something that just wont ever fit the new world, this pointless praise and calling things a piano mmo is just pure cope mechanism.

3, so then introduce animation canceling like eso, problem solved.. i guess ? yikes.
either way 3x2 wont provide a skill based experience anyway, it just isnt possible.

[BaylanSkål]

Honestly, depending on my class in Wow (retail or classic) I don't use half of the skills most of the time. Maybe in a dungeon group some more.
In SWTOR the same - more than half I can live without for normal PVE leveling. Also, Wow has at least better/shorter descriptions per skill, SWTOR has half a novel to read what a skill does. That's just lame.
On top of that, most so called hard-core players use tons of add-ons for timing & button layout - good for them, but if a game requires that to be useful... I dunno.

If I think of more action orientated games such as ESO or The Division (yes, not an MMo, but an online group orientated game) it works imho pretty well with a limited number of *useful* skills where you don't have to mash buttons. Actually, I take that back, you can do quite a bit of button mashing in ESO as well when running a group dungeon/raid....

[Fauxknight]

I prefer fewer abilities used in a more reactionary method rather than 10+ used in the same rotation over and over again.

[xaan]

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

1, eso covers all of this for what its worth but still a pointless argument since positioning and situational awareness in form of block, dodge roll or simply having more complex healing play with tab targetting to individually dispell/decurse and so forth still serves the exact same purpose.

2, crunshed to numbers, what ? huh ??? no i have no clue of what youre talking about here, more abilities with various different purposes to control the fight, burst or playing more defensively, being more supportive, leaning more towards the executes or getting out of cc types of stuff, dethreat, crowd control and so forth is something that just wont ever fit the new world, this pointless praise and calling things a piano mmo is just pure cope mechanism.

3, so then introduce animation canceling like eso, problem solved.. i guess ? yikes.
either way 3x2 wont provide a skill based experience anyway, it just isnt possible.

1. Yes, ESO theoretically already works that way. But in practice it doesn't. Not really. For example: animations are so short that animation-lock cannot be exploited by clever evasion.

2: Let me explain: in WoW, if you trigger a skill, the game checks for you if all prerequisites are met. Are you in range? Are you facing your opponent? Other conditions like the amount of health your opponent has (for execute). Only if all these conditions are true will the skill even fire. None of the work is done by you the player. The nubmers are crunched by the game in the background.

In New world, you have to check these conditions yourself. Range, facing the right direction etc. If you press attack, the skill will fire. Even if you're out of range or looking in the wron direction. This is necessary to allow manual evasion and exploitation of animation-lock. Something that just isn't present in paion-bar-MMOs.

[Merek Grimaldus]

not only am i concerned on the limited spell options and active spells you can have... but lets be honest without combo attacks and any chain attacks the games combat will go stale quickly... even the light/heavy auto left click attacks are boring as heck... light attack > shift to dodge > repeat... each weapon should of had its own unique light/heavy combo attacks.... as it stands right now combat is real clunky.


egh feels more like a sandbox survival then a mmorpg honestly.

I do not think this game will make it as a Mmo, it is a fun survival game but it lacks so much combat oriented depth.... they really dropped the ball imo on the combat :/..