Re: Tunnels and platform changes

[Ultra Bad At Games]

Just my thoughts on the recent update to experimental.

Tunnels
It seems to me like tunnels were implemented without considering the 3D terrain changes included in the same patch. I always end up deleting the platforms after building tunnels to recover my planks, because there's no risk of rocks falling on my beavers' heads. I suggest adding another building that is equivalent to the tunnel without the supporting platform, and removing the cost of extract from both since they only remove one block like basic dynamite. Keeping the existing tunnel block is nice because it gives the player the ability to tunnel underneath existing platforms if they need to.

Platforms
Changing the cost of platforms from logs+planks to planks only makes platforms more of an investment. I can tell I'm going to be using my small warehouses as makeshift platforms for more of the early game. It's also now inconsistent with the cost of stairs, bridges, overhangs, and solid tubeways.

I think these features need some more time in the oven, but still very promising. Tunnels have already made building underground much less of a pain than the previously required cut-and-cover approach, and 3D terrain really helps when you just need a bit more ground. Keep up the good work.

[Harris]

Originally posted by Ultra Bad At Games:

Changing the cost of platforms from logs+planks to planks only makes platforms more of an investment.

I hate this change for two reasons:

1) I can clearly see the platform is made up of some planks and logs. So this change makes no sense to me. The cost should strive to be reflective of what the thing looks like. It's a pointless step backwards I can't understand.

2) Timberborn has no vision. It was conceived as a survival builder, yes - but after the years of updates it has evolved into a creative builder about terraforming and all those other nice things. But it seems the devs have not noticed that and are now trying to make two games at the same time that are supposed to please everyone.

Over the years I wrote plenty of feedback about how early game is unnecessarily tedious and furthermore how the game punishes an inexperienced or casual player. There are lots of, lots of design decisions I - no, it's not just that I can't get behind them - I don't even understand the thought process behind them.

"Hunger debt", why is this in the game? Why would a beaver eat and drink X rations at once after starving for a while? If you do that in real life, you just die. My best guess is to prevent the player from starving them on purpose? Okay then, so why is the 50% productivity debuff for hungry beavers is in the game at the same time? It's overdesign, and it accomplishes nothing other than to make it even more difficult to comeback after a misplay.

Or the injury mechanics. Why does this exist? Right now this does not accomplish anything other than establish bots as clearly superior and drive the player to replace beavers with bots entirely - even as Folktails! Why? This undermines the whole point of improving beavers' well-being, let alone all those pretty buildings Mechanistry surely commited time and resources to make.

Sometimes they even seem like they're trying to listen, take the recent change where mines no longer need an "input" to produce scrap. And what they immediately do afterwards? Right, they bend the knee to more experienced playerbase who requires "challenge" after mastering the game's mechanics. Why don't you make a basic recipe free and an improved one require treated planks, then? I don't think you have to be a world class game designer to arrive to this solution.

Originally posted by Ultra Bad At Games:

Tunnels
It seems to me like tunnels were implemented without considering

... the fact they're yet another "win more" thing in that it's only useful to you after you've already stabilized.

The problem is dynamite. It used to be fine back when badwater didn't exist and so it required paper. However, right now dynamite is available too late, and generally too many unlocks that provide a power spike are gated behind metal.

Give me an option to dig ditches and tunnels, Mechanistry. Like, literally DIG. With paws. It can be slow. It can be 1-block deep. The most advanced version of dynamite can blast 5 blocks for balance purposes, I don't care.

I just want to have a smooth progression. A progression where I'm not staring at my screen for hours, waiting for things to happen. A progression where I have some other remedy to research points than to leave PC overnight. I've been following the updates for a few years now, but apparently this is too much to ask.

[Ultra Bad At Games]

Originally posted by Harris:

Or the injury mechanics. Why does this exist? Right now this does not accomplish anything other than establish bots as clearly superior and drive the player to replace beavers with bots entirely - even as Folktails!

Bot construction puts so much strain on my supply chains that I often skip them to go straight to wonder construction. Much cheaper, ironically, and wastes less of my time.