too bad was a fun game

[GH_Rudolf]

too bad was a fun game. but they really went overboard with that update. I removed it. because playing this is no longer fun bah

too many updates destroy it, to play this game just fine

[EleventhStar]

you can roll back to previous version in the betas tab.

[GH_Rudolf]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

you can roll back to previous version in the betas tab.

thank you yes happy old game

[Solstice]

I agree partly, the badwater Update made me crumble a bit. However i got used to it and Ziplines , that got added now, are amazing and fun.

[chaney]

You have a lot of authority to turn down/off things you don't like. The devs do an excellent job for us with things like that and easy access to older versions through betas.

[Harris]

Originally posted by Solstice:

However i got used to it

Badwater update brought nothing to the game. In fact, it made it worse. It made it worse in two ways:

1) Dynamite was changed to be made out of badwater instead of paper, and badwater is gated behind metal. And lack of dynamite significantly limits your expansion, essentially putting you at mercy of map designers.

2) Every single game you must make arrangements for when badwater arrives, or it will wipe you out. Once you learn how to do it, it's not challenging. It's tedious. But you have to do it every single time.

This two changes combined extend the stabilization stage of the game beyond what's reasonable. Early game is a slog and all replies I got on this matter here contain phrases like "got used to it", "cope" or "hold out until". No wonder a lot of players just use alt+shift+z to skip it.

And instead of meaningfully addressing this and smoothing out progression, Mechanistry changes platforms to be made out of planks.

And secondly, I have a long-standing criticism that I am playing your average builder where beavers are cosplaying as humans. This is especially prominent with the tubes, so even though they're efficient af, I stopped using them.

I mean, I could tolerate it for Iron Teeth, however Folktails are forced to play by the same rules. Injury mechanics forces you to get bots. Requirement for lots of advanced resources to build anything forces you to industrialize. I don't want to build sky-high batteries. I don't want my power to come from windmills. I'd like it to come from the river. But with constant droughts/badtides I can't rely on it.

There are other design decisions I'm not happy about, like the "hunger debt" where if you didn't have food for a while you'll have to repay every single ration missed AND you're slapped with -50% productivity on your beavers while you're at it, resulting in being punished twice. And here's the thing - I could perhaps turn off the badtides, I could turn off droughts even, injuries as well, obviously - but in the end I'd just remove any semblance of challenge out of the game and it would feel like cheating.

That being said, over the recent years I see a big trend of the game moving towards the creative builder to the point badtides and stuff are left as nothing more than an annoying chore the players are supposed to cope with until they can finally start playing. Hopefully this gets addressed at some point.

[xGAMERSMOMx]

Originally posted by Harris:

Badwater update brought nothing to the game. In fact, it made it worse. It made it worse in two ways:

1) Dynamite was changed to be made out of badwater instead of paper, and badwater is gated behind metal. And lack of dynamite significantly limits your expansion, essentially putting you at mercy of map designers.

2) Every single game you must make arrangements for when badwater arrives, or it will wipe you out. Once you learn how to do it, it's not challenging. It's tedious. But you have to do it every single time.

This two changes combined extend the stabilization stage of the game beyond what's reasonable. Early game is a slog and all replies I got on this matter here contain phrases like "got used to it", "cope" or "hold out until". No wonder a lot of players just use alt+shift+z to skip it.

I agree with the bad water not being a good addition, for ME, at least. I quit playing for months. I'm a play for relaxation person, versus most that play games for the adrenaline created over the demands of the game/game "people". Most city builders have some pretty crappy RNG numbers that make the citizens complain and disasters happen WAY too much/ften.

But..BUT you can now turn off bad tides AND droughts. you simply pick the difficulty level you want, click customize and deselect the check boxes.

Just disabling the bad tides makes a huge difference depending on the map. Yeah you'd have to select your maps carefully. There are quite a few out the that are fun, still have bad water, but it doesn't run into the good supply where it would cause much trouble, or any at all. sometimes i like to play to expand, sometimes i like to play to build, sometimes i just want to watch my beavers run around in an older completed map...*shrugs*

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Harris:

This two changes combined extend the stabilization stage of the game beyond what's reasonable. Early game is a slog and all replies I got on this matter here contain phrases like "got used to it", "cope" or "hold out until". No wonder a lot of players just use alt+shift+z to skip it.

difficulty in this game has always primarily come from the map design. if you want a chill game play on chill maps.

early game on easy/normal should on only be a slog if you plant too few trees, either as a learning how to play issue or as a function of "being at the mercy of the map difficulty" and having limited planting space. if you plant enough trees you don't have to "get used to it", "cope" or "hold out", badtides won't be much more than an afterthought.

as soon as you plant more trees than you can handle population growth and science points should become the thing that limits you on easy/normal. heck a lot of people i know end up prefering badtides over droughts since their power wheels keep working.

[Rüdiger]

i like the dirt water very much, gives depth and a reason to handle water flow. We are beavers, we let water flow. I would even like more of it. let the beavers produce waste after showering or bathing that contaminates water.

[Solstice]

I mean, lore wise, ruined world and such badwater makes sense. However i can agree that the way it's added is not very fun or engaging but an evil you have to get around tediously.

Apart from many good things, i dislike how fast beavers get hungry, especially the IT.
I feel for hunger and thirst should be more buffer (1,5 days, so they can get 1 full day without eating without starving) before getting a penalty. That is also realistic.

I just hate that a lot of times i have food and water stockpiled and still get penalties from workforce that gets hungry/thirsty during workhours.

But i personally like the new transportation system and would love to see upgrades to it even, like i suggested in other threads.

[chaney]

Did you try turning off Badtides and decreasing hunger rates at the start of a game? You can make it about as casual as you like. I know this isn't precisely what you mean but lower hunger rates should fix the pain.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by Solstice:

However i got used to it

Badwater update brought nothing to the game. In fact, it made it worse. It made it worse in two ways:

1) Dynamite was changed to be made out of badwater instead of paper, and badwater is gated behind metal. And lack of dynamite significantly limits your expansion, essentially putting you at mercy of map designers.

2) Every single game you must make arrangements for when badwater arrives, or it will wipe you out. Once you learn how to do it, it's not challenging. It's tedious. But you have to do it every single time.

This two changes combined extend the stabilization stage of the game beyond what's reasonable. Early game is a slog and all replies I got on this matter here contain phrases like "got used to it", "cope" or "hold out until". No wonder a lot of players just use alt+shift+z to skip it.

And instead of meaningfully addressing this and smoothing out progression, Mechanistry changes platforms to be made out of planks.

And secondly, I have a long-standing criticism that I am playing your average builder where beavers are cosplaying as humans. This is especially prominent with the tubes, so even though they're efficient af, I stopped using them.

I mean, I could tolerate it for Iron Teeth, however Folktails are forced to play by the same rules. Injury mechanics forces you to get bots. Requirement for lots of advanced resources to build anything forces you to industrialize. I don't want to build sky-high batteries. I don't want my power to come from windmills. I'd like it to come from the river. But with constant droughts/badtides I can't rely on it.

There are other design decisions I'm not happy about, like the "hunger debt" where if you didn't have food for a while you'll have to repay every single ration missed AND you're slapped with -50% productivity on your beavers while you're at it, resulting in being punished twice. And here's the thing - I could perhaps turn off the badtides, I could turn off droughts even, injuries as well, obviously - but in the end I'd just remove any semblance of challenge out of the game and it would feel like cheating.

That being said, over the recent years I see a big trend of the game moving towards the creative builder to the point badtides and stuff are left as nothing more than an annoying chore the players are supposed to cope with until they can finally start playing. Hopefully this gets addressed at some point.

No such thing as cheating in a single player game, you do you.. and you obviously just want a creative builder, so why are you not just turning off these things that bugs you so much and leave the Devs to add new cool stuff for the rest of us that don't mind being challenged albeit it being very easy to get around.

You people both baffle and amaze me, how you complain about literally everything new.

[Sore Legs?]

I know your being sarcastic lol, but the game is actually in best place it's ever been!

Great update, so much better than it was on update 4.

[Sore Legs?]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

you can roll back to previous version in the betas tab.

He's being sarcastic

[Harris]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

early game on easy/normal should on only be a slog if you plant too few trees, either as a learning how to play issue or as a function of "being at the mercy of the map difficulty" and having limited planting space.

They added the flexible start feature to maps you've cleared, yet in practice it's pretty pointless, because the starting location is usually the only viable one. If it doesn't have enough trees - you're screwed. If it doesn't have berries and you're IT - you're screwed.

(this is coming after a game on Plains in the corner of the map near the mine and badwater source where I came a few trees short of finishing the dam and the colony collapsed)

What exacerbates this issue is the common MO of Mechanistry, i.e. overdesign. You want to gate forester (which, frankly, should be available by default) behind research? Okay, but why do you gate it behind planks as well? It's not just my nitpick - I saw folks on Reddit talk about this as well.

Ultimately, Timberborn is a game about shaping the environment to suit your needs. And I'm feeling a distinct lack of early tools which would allow me to escape or mitigate the "mercy of map difficulty" and smoothen my progression until mid-to-late game where I get dynamite and stuff.

[edcote]

Complaining about things you can turn off is absolutely ridiculous. You probably complain there's too many types of cereal at the grocery store