Followed the tutorial perfectly...

[edcote]

...all beavers die first drought. Would expect the tutorial to be a little better to avoid this.

[aaror]

Publicado originalmente por PBS StoneD0G:

Publicado originalmente por Maehlice:

In a "tutorial" for a city builder, definitely.

For any kind of rogue-like or ironman type game, it's more the opposite.

I'd argue that this is a city builder with a survival element more akin to Frostpunk and Banished than cities skyline or Tropico. Sure, drought after 40 hours is just a minor inconvenience but it's what made the first 5-10 hours interesting. I can't fathom how someone can play a game for 30 min, lose, and post about how the tutorial was bad. He was also probably done with the tutorial at that point, the holding hand was gone.

To op:
Yes, the first hour is the hardest one in this game, pay close attention to the numbers. Water is more important than food, if you have no water reserves at the start of a drought you are fu****. If you go without food for 3+ days you are fu****. That's really all there is to it.

Eh, the tutorial IS bad.

[Philtre]

Publicado originalmente por edcote:

I guess I need to repeat myself. I followed the tutorial perfectly; the amount of water tanks they suggested, the amount of carrots, pumps, all tanks full... [...] I did not expect them not to survive the first drought. I expected too much, I suppose.

At the end of the tutorial you get the following message:

"Your settlement is now self-sufficient as long as the water keeps flowing. Consider building a dam or placing more Water Tanks to help your beavers survive the droughts."

This is what is known as A Hint, because the water will shortly stop flowing, and your settlement will be in trouble if you don't prepare appropriately.

They could perhaps make this message more prominent, so people don't just automatically hit the "close tutorial" button (which looks exactly like the "proceed to next step" button).

[dt Walter Robinson]

And to be frank, all single tutorials from other games that i can think of off the top of my head never taught the player everything.

That is too much info dump, so big tutorials are usually broken up into incremental stages.

Otherwise, a tutorial is better kept brief and on point as to the basics.

[Fernando]

Had high hopes to play this game. Playing on easy. Tutorial doesn't help. All beavers died after the first drought. Plain and simple, not fun. Not sure what the developers were doing when the easy part of the game is hard to play. Growth of population stopped at 12 and no matter how many trees I planted it wasn't enough to sustain the growth. And after building 4 water storages and water pump. My population dies. Is there a refund button? Cause playing a game on easy should be at least the you know, easy. Refund Please.

[dt Walter Robinson]

Publicado originalmente por Fernando:

Had high hopes to play this game. Playing on easy. Tutorial doesn't help. All beavers died after the first drought. Plain and simple, not fun. Not sure what the developers were doing when the easy part of the game is hard to play. Growth of population stopped at 12 and no matter how many trees I planted it wasn't enough to sustain the growth. And after building 4 water storages and water pump. My population dies. Is there a refund button? Cause playing a game on easy should be at least the you know, easy. Refund Please.

OK, but you can also try to learn.

You need Lodges to grow population with the starter clan, for instance.

[edcote]

I started a new game using what I learned during my first disastrous run. Doing better. A dam tutorial in a beaver game sounds like a good idea to me, same with irrigation since my beaver died of starvation, not water. Thanks for all the tips.

[edcote]

Publicado originalmente por Philtre:

Publicado originalmente por edcote:

I guess I need to repeat myself. I followed the tutorial perfectly; the amount of water tanks they suggested, the amount of carrots, pumps, all tanks full... [...] I did not expect them not to survive the first drought. I expected too much, I suppose.

At the end of the tutorial you get the following message:

"Your settlement is now self-sufficient as long as the water keeps flowing. Consider building a dam or placing more Water Tanks to help your beavers survive the droughts."

This is what is known as A Hint, because the water will shortly stop flowing, and your settlement will be in trouble if you don't prepare appropriately.

They could perhaps make this message more prominent, so people don't just automatically hit the "close tutorial" button (which looks exactly like the "proceed to next step" button).

Honestly I might have missed that message

[ZomBeGone]

Did you start on the recommended starter map? Some of the other maps can be really tough.

[AlexMBrennan]

At the end of the tutorial you get the following message:

"Your settlement is now self-sufficient as long as the water keeps flowing. Consider building a dam or placing more Water Tanks to help your beavers survive the droughts."

This is what is known as A Hint, because the water will shortly stop flowing, and your settlement will be in trouble if you don't prepare appropriately.

No, this is what is known as "trolling": At the start of the game you have a limited supply of building materials and limited time before the drought hits but instead of teaching you how to deal with this the tutorial forces you to waste your time and building materials on irrelevant stuff (e.g. homes and warehouses).

You can't blame the player for not preparing properly after you have done everything in your power to prevent the player from being able to prepare. Remember that any error in the early game forces you to restart the map because you cannot get any resources back.

[mikeydsc]

There is enough materials on the plains map to build it all in 15 days. There is enough wood leftover after building the tutorial stuff to build a 7 (or was it 8) dam across the southern part of the river under your starting district. You are about out b y the time it is all harvested, with just Barely enough left over to build a sawmill.

If you build anything else besides what is mentioned then sure you might run out.

[edcote]

Publicado originalmente por ZomBeGone:

Did you start on the recommended starter map? Some of the other maps can be really tough.

Yes, followed all the recommendations. I've been playing these types of games for literally decades so it was a surprise for me to die at the first drought. Never saw a game do that before.

[Wish Maker]

Publicado originalmente por edcote:

...all beavers die first drought. Would expect the tutorial to be a little better to avoid this.

Once I finished the tutorial I realized that I can do all the steps it walked me through at once, on the first day, which is important to do. Speed is rather important if you're not playing on Easy Mode. Best to play on Easy Mode to learn what all the stuff does as the heat waves are predictable and short. It allows you to see the effects of it without suffering; a good learning experience.

I fiddled for about 11 hours on Easy Mode -- playing around with most of the stuff, and 99% of the game isn't explained in the tutorial. And honestly; the tutorial is more of... 'This is how the UI works' sort of experience, rather than a real lesson in playing the game.

[Chia]

I will also note i followed the tutorial perfectly and died first drought with a recent first playthrough.

[Philtre]

Publicado originalmente por AlexMBrennan:

No, this is what is known as "trolling": At the start of the game you have a limited supply of building materials and limited time before the drought hits but instead of teaching you how to deal with this the tutorial forces you to waste your time and building materials on irrelevant stuff (e.g. homes and warehouses).

You can't blame the player for not preparing properly after you have done everything in your power to prevent the player from being able to prepare. Remember that any error in the early game forces you to restart the map because you cannot get any resources back.

I've had similar discussions with other people about other games, and I see a basic disagreement in the role of a tutorial: tutorials do not exist to tell you how to win the game, they exist to familiarize you with the basic mechanics so that you can start playing. To win, or even survive, you have to learn and experiment on your own.

It might be better to have a separate tutorial map with a less dangerous first drought, as suggested by someone above, or at least to kick you out of the map at the end of the tutorial, to reinforce the "you're on your own now" point, and let the player make their own choices about what to build in the first few days. On the other hand, I personally kind of like the "trial by fire" aspect of the current setup, since it's very effective at teaching you how important it is to prepare for the droughts.

[Maehlice]

Publicado originalmente por Philtre:

... they exist to familiarize you with the basic mechanics so that you can start playing. To win, or even survive, you have to learn and experiment on your own.

You can't play the game if your colony has no beavers.

Given that successful completion of the tutorial says, "Your settlement is now self-sufficient ..."

... it's clear the intent of this particular tutorial is to set up for the player a simple, sample, sufficient starter district.

It sometimes fails to do that even when followed perfectly, therefore, it is some degree of "broke".

On the other hand, I personally kind of like the "trial by fire" aspect of the current setup, since it's very effective at teaching you how important it is to prepare for the droughts.

Trial by fire would be no tutorial.

Since droughts ramp up each cycle, there's plenty of "fire" awaiting the player even when the tutorial survives the 1st drought.