Badwater Overreactions

[Konur]

Whatever your opinions are on the update, the concept makes sense within the game's lore (post apocalyptic polluted wasteland), no the color is not bad, and it's the kind of large gameplay and meta-changing update the game needs to stay relevant and interesting. If you want the laid back experience, as far as I'm aware you can basically turn badtides off entirely in the custom difficulty. I'm playing on easy and the only reason I'm encountering real challenge is because I'm trying to eventually support a massive city population. Other than that I would be having very few issues. I think people are blowing it out of proportion, and while there are legitimate complaints, it seems silly to claim this update has ruined the game.

[__]

1. Create game attracting players, who like slow playstyle, building production chains and terraforming.
2. Suddenly add non-switchable mechanics which breaks previous play patterns.
3. Get whine from customers.
4. PROFIT...

It may be a good update for game, but it's bad update for players. Like, big part of current community doesn't want to play this way.

Badwaters is just the same mechanic as droughts, but, like, uber version of it. It does same things (killing plants by bad earth and killing beavers by thirst) just faster, and can be countered by same actions (dums and flood-gates), but now u just have less time and less "freedom of creativity" to play with.

Personaly, I don't even need droughts. Just let me be flufy beaver, build dams and terraform map. But instead I'm getting one more mechanic like droughts but more restricting and more annoying. Tnx, good update, pls let me turn it off.

[Mile]

Originally posted by __:

1. Create game attracting players, who like slow playstyle, building production chains and terraforming.
2. Suddenly add non-switchable mechanics which breaks previous play patterns.
3. Get whine from customers.
4. PROFIT...

It may be a good update for game, but it's bad update for players. Like, big part of current community doesn't want to play this way.

Badwaters is just the same mechanic as droughts, but, like, uber version of it. It does same things (killing plants by bad earth and killing beavers by thirst) just faster, and can be countered by same actions (dums and flood-gates), but now u just have less time and less "freedom of creativity" to play with.

Personaly, I don't even need droughts. Just let me be flufy beaver, build dams and terraform map. But instead I'm getting one more mechanic like droughts but more restricting and more annoying. Tnx, good update, pls let me turn it off.

It made me want to buy the game, and I am enjoying it and the challenge it adds on top of the drought system. They listened and made a function to turn it off, so why people are still upset makes ZERO sense.

[__]

Originally posted by Mile:

It made me want to buy the game, and I am enjoying it and the challenge it adds on top of the drought system.

Yeap new players will join, old players will leave. And thouse who are leaving are whining.

Originally posted by Mile:

They listened and made a function to turn it off, so why people are still upset makes ZERO sense.

Where? Even with unchecked toggle i still have half of map covered by red creap. It just stops "badfloods".
Go edit map? i dont wan't to. I have time to play strategy, not map editor.
It's alpha? That's what whine is about, it was pretty good alpha, now it become unplayable. So...

[Konur]

Originally posted by __:

1. Create game attracting players, who like slow playstyle, building production chains and terraforming.
2. Suddenly add non-switchable mechanics which breaks previous play patterns.
3. Get whine from customers.
4. PROFIT...

It may be a good update for game, but it's bad update for players. Like, big part of current community doesn't want to play this way.

Badwaters is just the same mechanic as droughts, but, like, uber version of it. It does same things (killing plants by bad earth and killing beavers by thirst) just faster, and can be countered by same actions (dums and flood-gates), but now u just have less time and less "freedom of creativity" to play with.

Personaly, I don't even need droughts. Just let me be flufy beaver, build dams and terraform map. But instead I'm getting one more mechanic like droughts but more restricting and more annoying. Tnx, good update, pls let me turn it off.

The whole premise of game updates is to change the meta so you can't rely on the same strategies over and over. City builders are inherently strategic games. Of course, if much of the player base doesn't like the update, you can't just say they're wrong. I just think that some complaints are baseless since you can go to custom difficulty and make the badwater really easy to deal with. If it changes production lines, then just change your production lines though. The whole point of updates is to change the game lol

[__]

Originally posted by Konur:

The whole point of updates is to change the game lol

The point of updates should be improving the game, not just "let's add random changes and look what happens". Or should we expect what next update will change game from strategy to action shooter?

Originally posted by Konur:

you can go to custom difficulty and make the badwater really easy to deal with

Can I complain about game forcing me to go custom difficulty? Or it's forbidden?

This is not some competitive RTS which require changing meta every season. Just make changes smooth, and let people who liked this game play it the way they used to.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Mile:

It made me want to buy the game, and I am enjoying it and the challenge it adds on top of the drought system. They listened and made a function to turn it off, so why people are still upset makes ZERO sense.

it makes tons of sense.

you are most likely to have a bad experience with badwater if you don't read forums/patchnotes/etc, and if you don't do that you are also less likely to be on experimental or dig through advanced options.

also the fix is like a day old. it's gonna take some time for people to become aware of it.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by __:

The point of updates should be improving the game, not just "let's add random changes and look what happens". Or should we expect what next update will change game from strategy to action shooter?

for released games sure. for pre-release games major additions or reworks are generally a good thing.

but yeah it does suck if a game you liked changes in a negative way. however if you been keeping track of the game for a while you should also know the devs will fix many of the common complaints in an update or two.

[Tsal Vlaxitov]

I'm trying to like it but finding it really unenjoyable for some of the reasons mentioned. I'm now forced to hyperfocus on metal, copious amounts water management, and irrigation really early in the game which is making it feel convoluted and a lot less sandbox.

My biggest single issue is with the bad tides I feel like the barriers should filter the water instead of just holding the contamination back. The barriers not filtering the water makes them necessary yet unrewarding. I also don't like how the barriers now dictate how I build, meaning having to ramp up and down the paths where the land meets the water. I think we should be able to build paths over the barriers like we can with dams.

Its not really about the difficulty more than it is about the rails it adds to the game.

[Konur]

Originally posted by Tsal Vlaxitov:

I'm trying to like it but finding it really unenjoyable for some of the reasons mentioned. I'm now forced to hyperfocus on metal, copious amounts water management, and irrigation really early in the game which is making it feel convoluted and a lot less sandbox.

My biggest single issue is with the bad tides I feel like the barriers should filter the water instead of just holding the contamination back. The barriers not filtering the water makes them necessary yet unrewarding. I also don't like how the barriers now dictate how I build, meaning having to ramp up and down the paths where the land meets the water. I think we should be able to build paths over the barriers like we can with dams.

I just haven't blocked badtides at all and I haven't had any issues, but Im also on easy so idk if that's why

[Konur]

Originally posted by __:

Originally posted by Konur:

The whole point of updates is to change the game lol

The point of updates should be improving the game, not just "let's add random changes and look what happens". Or should we expect what next update will change game from strategy to action shooter?

Originally posted by Konur:

you can go to custom difficulty and make the badwater really easy to deal with

Can I complain about game forcing me to go custom difficulty? Or it's forbidden?

This is not some competitive RTS which require changing meta every season. Just make changes smooth, and let people who liked this game play it the way they used to.

"Let's add changes and see what happens" is literally the definition of playtesting, and early access is essentially just playtesting. If they aren't happy with how a feature turned out Im sure they will tweak it further. But no I don't think it's very sensible to complain about having to use the fairly basic and quite accessible advanced options they have. That's literally why they have them, so that you can tailor the game more specifically to meet your own goals.

[Peter34]

I was a bit wary of Badwater, reading the updates, but once it hit the live branch I tried it, and I quickly got a feel for it, how it works, how to survive it.

It's not bad, especially with the newer update (also on live) where the first Badtide only last one day.

[oidepp]

Originally posted by __:

1. Create game attracting players, who like slow playstyle, building production chains and terraforming.
2. Suddenly add non-switchable mechanics which breaks previous play patterns.
3. Get whine from customers.
4. PROFIT...

It may be a good update for game, but it's bad update for players. Like, big part of current community doesn't want to play this way.

Badwaters is just the same mechanic as droughts, but, like, uber version of it. It does same things (killing plants by bad earth and killing beavers by thirst) just faster, and can be countered by same actions (dums and flood-gates), but now u just have less time and less "freedom of creativity" to play with.

Personaly, I don't even need droughts. Just let me be flufy beaver, build dams and terraform map. But instead I'm getting one more mechanic like droughts but more restricting and more annoying. Tnx, good update, pls let me turn it off.

Bad Water has been for month in the experimental version with a lot of community feedback and changes - what you see now is the result of a community interacting with bad water for a really long time. it is just not true that so much people dont like it.
it are only guys like you - missunderstanding the game as a fun game ("Just let me be flufy beaver,...") just a showcase to watch, something the game never called its self.

from the first day on the game was a survival, a fight against time for saving the beavers. you want a sandbox mode - just go and use the map editor and build funny things - thats okay! but dont call it a bad update just because the game is adding harder options to its basic survival character.
the fault is you, sorry, but so clear in this situation. you dont like the game, just the look.
just like you said: good update for the game, bad for "players (like you)"
you can do a lot of fun sandboxing with this game. but the game will not evolve in this direction, because it is a game.

[Ericus1]

You assume that the majority of the community plays on or contributes to the experimentation branch, which is a patently false assumption.

Don't presume to speak for other people.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: the LAST thing this game needed was more front-loaded difficulty and yet another mechanic requiring needlessly tedius and thoughtlessly choiceless manual micromanagement. Badtides is both.

[That Fish Guy]

I'm enjoying bad tides update

[Wolfman]

Originally posted by Ericus1:

I've said this before and I'll say it again: the LAST thing this game needed was more front-loaded difficulty and yet another mechanic requiring needlessly tedius and thoughtlessly choiceless manual micromanagement. Badtides is both.

This. Just to add a point: It's annoying that I'm forced to play the game in a certain way they're railroading. That started earlier though, when the entire golem thing was necessary to get the ridiculous mud for mud baths. in that perspective, bat water is the logical consequence to force a certain play style.

I know that doesn't affect new players much. It's a game as a service then with constantly changing parameters.