Am I to understand...

[Antithesis]

you updated a WHOLE NEW WATER SYSTEM and your water sources still surge/starve???

This has been a reported issue since day 1, multiple reports on the bug report website and i'm sure here,

and you spent MONTHS digging around in your water system and it STILL INEXPLICABLY SURGES???

[tom_mai78101]

It's still using the old water physics system, what are you talking about a "whole new water system"? They reverted some water physics changes during Update 4 experimental, mind you.

If you are talking about badwater/badtides, it is just the same water, but with dye colors added to them. They didn't change much with the water physics, only gameplay mechanics. Otherwise, we would have already gotten ourselves aquaducts and water pipes / drainage.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by tom_mai78101:

If you are talking about badwater/badtides, it is just the same water, but with dye colors added to them. They didn't change much with the water physics, only gameplay mechanics. Otherwise, we would have already gotten ourselves aquaducts and water pipes / drainage.

he probably means the water going vertical if you put a lot of high strenght water sources closes together or the oscillating floods you can get between two dams when a lot of water hits a dam at once.

iirc the latter have been reduced in intensity, but you can probably still get them.
(i probably should test this sometime. i haven't build dams for aesthetics pretty much since i started playing the game cause those floods were so annoying.)

[Antithesis]

They coded and built new source nodes, buildings to turn on and off said source nodes, but yet while they were scripting and animating and coding didn't think once to look at the surging water physics that have been flood/starving every game i've played past cycle 6.

I just can't wrap my head around it. Oh, and it is 100% the water SOURCE, and not the operational physics, I'm currently watching the double badwater source on waterfalls swell and shrink at level, no waves, like it's breathing.

This game has had this game breaking issue since it released and i'm just lost as to how so much time can be spent on a dozen other features, animations, code, and not even a whisper about the water source just deciding it doesn't like you.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Antithesis:

I just can't wrap my head around it. Oh, and it is 100% the water SOURCE, and not the operational physics, I'm currently watching the double badwater source on waterfalls swell and shrink at level, no waves, like it's breathing.

you mean the water level is going up/down, even drying up, during a normal flowing season?

i'd say a good first step is to properly delete any (outdated) mods if you have any.

for your own sanity i'd also suggest testing it out in the map editor with symmetric reservoirs just to rule out it isn't anything to do with the terrain shape.

[Antithesis]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by Antithesis:

I just can't wrap my head around it. Oh, and it is 100% the water SOURCE, and not the operational physics, I'm currently watching the double badwater source on waterfalls swell and shrink at level, no waves, like it's breathing.

you mean the water level is going up/down, even drying up, during a normal flowing season?

i'd say a good first step is to properly delete any (outdated) mods if you have any.

for your own sanity i'd also suggest testing it out in the map editor with symmetric reservoirs just to rule out it isn't anything to do with the terrain shape.

Not drying up, but surging as if someone was turning a hose down to 1/2 output, then back up to full output over and over again. Placed dams last cycle to raise static level by .5 blocks. Not floodgates.

The surging then overruns the dam for a bit, then shrinks back down until flow over the dam stops. Then repeats this process with no waves.

I've run vanilla no mods since I purchased the game. I have 600 hours played, not once has the water been consistent after the 5-7 cycle mark. Let me tell you, I have tried >>EVERYTHING<< in vanilla to fix this. Levee baffles (closest to a fix), Not using flood gates, numerous dam intervals, almost no dam intervals, etc.

If I could build levees on top of dams to stifle output, I could stack a reservoir so the surging either doesn't affect downstream, or I can put in multiples to average out overall flow rate in spite of the bad physics.

but no, we needed pollution and a dance hall rather than switching levees to "Can be built on dams".

[EleventhStar]

you playing on vanilla maps too? without water sources stronger than say 3?

[Antithesis]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

you playing on vanilla maps too? without water sources stronger than say 3?

Currently playing on "Waterfalls" beginner friendly 128x128. Two "Badwater Nodes" producing water out of 1 lake at the top of the mountain on map. Source nodes sit 3 levels lower than "land level", source nodes sit 2 levels below "River Outlet", "River Outlet" is 3 blocks across. Directly followed by a waterfall dropoff of 4 levels. Water flow rate consistent cycles 1,2,3,4,5,6. Dams finished on cycle 6, raising river outlet level to 2.5 above source nodes. 3 dams in total, single file, across river outlet.

Flow rate inconsistent after drought refill entering into cycle 7.

[EleventhStar]

oof, was playing again and it looks like they didn't catch the thing where your river dries up 90% immediately after closing floodgates either.

[EleventhStar]

haha you can even see the river dry up in a screenshot. closed the floodgate and you can literally see the water level being almost dry on the left, but 0.5 on the right.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3146219971

[Antithesis]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

haha you can even see the river dry up in a screenshot. closed the floodgate and you can literally see the water level being almost dry on the left, but 0.5 on the right.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3146219971

Yeah, think I found a new one as well, dams will somehow back leak into the main river at level below .5

[EleventhStar]

still can't have multiple settlements with the same name yet either. the struggle is real.

[DesertHobo]

Building levees on dams would be a very welcomed feature to help combat the surge problem. But is the flow rate of nodes the problem or a possible ground water / evaporation bug the cause?

[Sholomar]

In real life river flow variation of the water level in cubic feet per minute is quite normal. If anything I think they should enhance the effect. The trick then is to make sure your exits are sufficiently wide to handle the extra flow... my dams are as wide as the river itself so as to not restrict flow. Surging that floods no longer occurs. That typically takes at least a 5 wide dam or flood control device in this game with care to watch how much width your turns and elevation changes have.

In real life just a small increase in water depth can dramatically increase the flow in cubic feet per minute. Maybe it's not a bug but a feature. LOL

I've played the waterfalls map and never had that badwater river flood (before I capped off and terraformed the land) but have had surges in that lower river with the 12+ water sources.

My settlement went from looking like the above picture to the below as I played the last week. It no longer suffers from surges or flooding after widening some of the sharp corners.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3140670125

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3146153849

Only one floodgate needs adjusting at this point ... the one that diverts badwater. Everything else flows automatically.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3146351448

[mightymuffin]

Originally posted by Antithesis:

They coded and built new source nodes, buildings to turn on and off said source nodes, but yet while they were scripting and animating and coding didn't think once to look at the surging water physics that have been flood/starving every game i've played past cycle 6.

I just can't wrap my head around it. Oh, and it is 100% the water SOURCE, and not the operational physics, I'm currently watching the double badwater source on waterfalls swell and shrink at level, no waves, like it's breathing.

This game has had this game breaking issue since it released and i'm just lost as to how so much time can be spent on a dozen other features, animations, code, and not even a whisper about the water source just deciding it doesn't like you.

I would wager that there was very little coding for the badwater existing. Create a new object that uses the same code as the normal source block, slap a new texture on the thing and give it the output of the new fluid which would have the same properties and code of the old fluid except its name and the amount of brown/red added to the texture. Then borrow some code from the underground ruins to get the buildings that go on top of it and throw in some bools to dictate how those buildings impact the source block.

After that allow a basic mixing system to occur that controls the pigmentation of the water based on badwater:water which we know they track because the water gauge tells us what the mix is. Then take that ratio and use it to control the chance of a beaver getting contaminated, pump efficiency, how much ground gets irrigated ect.

Once that afternoon or two of prototyping is done start working on real things like changes to existing building, making new ones and tweaking values to get the difficulty where they want it. Along with new map design and updating all the existing maps to work with the new source blocks.

As to the bug you're mentioning, I'm unsure what you're talking about...will just assume its a thing but had the good fortune of never encountering it in my 200+ hours.

[editbayrat]

I've played for 300+ hours and never experienced this surge/starve thing you say is breaking the game. That would make me think it's a feature, not a bug.