Who Really Killed Who? Deep diving into the story... (spoilers)

[darthjobo]

So I have read the "So... let's talk about the story" post and most of the comments after a first play-through. Very interesting thread! And although I initially enjoyed the game, the story and the ending left me puzzled and unsatisfied after interpreting things in the most obvious way. Then I played the game a second time and after seeing the story in a different light, I have a new appreciation for how everything is put together. Thoughts:


1. Nicole really was the killer, not her mother. In a fit of rage, Nicole attacked Rachel with the hockey stick and killed her (or at least almost killed her) and then her mom, Claire, helped clean the hockey stick and then dispose of the body during Nicole's hockey game. (I know a lot of people are going with Mom killing Rachel, but that seems like a weaker story and makes the mannequin room and the ghost writing "murderer" in the attic seem silly if it was just directed at Nicole's already deceased mother.) Several people on the other thread pointed this out as a possible alternate story that the authors chose to not go with in the end, but I think it's actually the real story. I don't think anything in the game conflicts with this version. The authors make it clear how Nicole is blocking her true memories, but they are slowly coming back, especially near the end of the game. After Nicole discovers Irving's creepy research area on the second floor, they spend a good deal of time talking about how Nicole hated Rachel because of all of the attention her dad was giving her, confirming Nicole's motive when she was a teenager. (And if Claire was actually the killer, why would her daughter's hockey stick be her weapon of choice?) Nicole should be seen as an unreliable narrator.

2. The secret fake bedroom wasn't just a shrine that Irving made for Rachel after her death. It was the room where he took her and abused her. It is very well hidden and secluded, and nobody could see or hear what was going on in there. Except possibly Nicole who, if you click on the vent above the bed, said that she could remember hearing all sorts of noises through the vents. Nicole may have heard what was going on by listening from the attic. That would feed her anger and jealousy even more. The room was probably decorated that way to make Rachel (who was mentally challenged) feel more at ease like this was a safe and happy room. Yeah, pretty sick stuff. And what about the possibility that Nicole actually attacked or killed Rachel in that room? (She could have blocked that room out of her memory even though she starts to remember the poem that leads her back there.) Who else would have written "♥♥♥♥♥♥" on that chalkboard? And from that location, it would be pretty easy for her and/or Claire to drag the body to the the garage without anybody noticing.

3. There is something very significant about Rachel's retainer. Perhaps when Nicole was beating up Rachel with her hockey stick, she hit Rachel in the mouth and the retainer fell out and that was burned into Nicole's memory. The retainer container is left on the bed in the secret fake bedroom and you see this right before finding the key to unlock the music box that makes you remember what happened that night. The retainer is eventually found in the bloody flannel in the car and Nicole is holding it in her hand when she is dazed in the car at the end. One further detail... in the middle of the game when Nicole is having that dream sequence with her dad in the forest, you can walk (albeit slowly) towards the campfire and look into the fire and see what appears to be the retainer! The retainer seems symbolic of the entire incident, especially in Nicole's mind, and especially if Nicole attacked Rachel in the secret bedroom.

4. Irving didn't run off into the snow and commit suicide at the end. He pretended to run off to confuse Nicole, but he actually stayed in the hotel and was instrumental in trying to get Nicole to kill herself. Near the end after Nicole has soaked the shirt and talks to Irving, she seems very disturbed and disoriented and then hears something and says "Rachel, is that you?" While it's not explicitly shown, I believe that this was actually Irving sneaking up behind her and knocking her unconscious. Nicole then wakes up in her car that has been rigged with exhaust coming in the driver window. She didn't do that herself! And it seems silly if the story is that Rachel's ghost rigged this up. The biggest clue comes from earlier, looking at Irving's creepy little research area on the 2nd floor. The majority of items aren't about his research into Rachel's death, they are all about the design of Nicole's car. Pictures of her car, a diagram of that model, etc. All along he was plotting to kill her and make it look like a suicide. That would be the obvious revenge strategy for a deranged individual who is still mourning his sister who also died from a staged suicide.

5. While the hotel may have been slightly haunted by Rachel (door creaking in ghost hunter room, "murderer" appearing on the chalk board, and the 2nd floor doors slamming seem to be the most likely supernatural events), the story actually had very few, if not any, ghost encounters. The real horror was created by an obsessed and psychotic Irving (who had worked with Nicole's dad, the abuser, for several years to try to figure out how Rachel died... that's pretty messed up in itself). Irving's goal all along was to manipulate and break down Nicole and eventually get her to commit suicide. Perhaps Rachel's ghost was manipulating them all?

I appreciate this game and story a lot more now seeing it in this light. Thoughts?

[ledkit]

I had one more thought. Maybe, Rachel is not the only girl molested in this hotel. That would explain Nicoles repressed memories, jealousy, sleepwalking. That would definetly exlain how she traveled from being sane independent woman to wreck she was by the end of this story.

[exolon]

Yeah, i thought that too , a lot of clues about unicorns , make me think that.
By the way ,i think irving doesn't exist, we are the irving playing the game

[darthjobo]

Originally posted by ledkit:

I had one more thought. Maybe, Rachel is not the only girl molested in this hotel. That would explain Nicoles repressed memories, jealousy, sleepwalking. That would definetly exlain how she traveled from being sane independent woman to wreck she was by the end of this story.

Yes, that's definitely a possibility in this story. I think the authors did a good job hinting at this without explicitly saying so.

[stephen.macpherson]

I totally agree with all these comments, including the theory that Nicole was also abused by her father. (However, I do not agree with the comment that Irving does not exist...)

I enjoyed this game but the experience was unfortunately marred by some graphics issues and serious audio glitches. I was ready at one point to quit and ask for a refund but I am glad I persevered. A very memorable and disturbing story.

[Honesty]

Let's make a few things clear first:

This was a German company, making a game that is based in America. English, obviously, being our national native tongue also.


Much like the developers of Life is Strange (France); the English and general writing (especially on fliers and the like) looks as if, people fluent in English did indeed write (or help write or edit) everything; and while grammatically correct, it just doesn't sound "right" sometimes. I read a review of the game from gamercrate, and the author even mentions something along the lines of "it looks as if it was ran through google translate too many times."


Why did I mention all of this you ask? Because some of the confusing plot elements and/or writing is very likely because of this. Whilst we can understand everything, as mentioned it's all grammatically correct; it just feels "off" sometimes -- leading us to examine things too closely that really didn't need a close examination at all.

--- That said, lets move on to other topics below ---


1.) Nicole was never abused by her father. If she had been, you better bet the story would have laid it out in the end. They didn't leave Rachel's fate a mystery at the end -- they could have alluded to Claire killing her -- something like that would have been a great debate/talking point; but they laid it out flat. Nicole also even calls her father "daddy" in flashbacks and in her own mind/to herself; where as she refers to him as "Leonard" when talking to others.

Had her done horrific things to his own daughter; she would not be calling him "daddy" and saying things like, "I love you" or "I miss you."


2.) Whilst Leonard can be technically labeled a Paedophile; he didn't actively seek out younger girls to "fall in love with" or to have sexual relationships with.

Pardon in advance for my ineloquent usage of the following phrase and sentence; but Rachel more or less "fell in his lap." He was friends with her father and was treating her *dyslexia.* She was not mentally challenged -- she had Dyslexia. Something younger children, especially in the 80's and 90's -- were not equipped to handle or deal with properly; outside of professionals that is. Thus she was labeled "retarded" by classmates and ridiculed.

If we're being real, however, and disregarding what the story tries to tell and show us as romantic; the relationship between Rachel and Leonard was definitely abuse. He had authority over her, he was her "teacher" and she confided in him. He used this "position of power" and groomed her whilst he was "falling in love" with her.

He was 30+ years her senior also. This wasn't a "forbidden" or "taboo" love story between a 16 year old, and a 18~21 year old (again, this comes with it's own host of issues, problems, and the like) -- this was a married man, with a daughter and 30+ years older than her.


* * * Rachel also has Z E R O "voice" in this game * * *

This was such a missed opportunity. I am unsure why this was ever approved.

I think combining the Gamercrate article, with the one from PCgamer and adding a few points on top of their review; is what this game deserved. Especially since this company wasn't equipped to handle these topics -- they also should have had a Editor from America (American-English) look over the script and edited where edits were needed. It would helped this story immensely. I don't think this game was a 40/100. 75/100 would be more fair in my opinion; as I feel like reviews should cover the entirety of the game -- not just the script itself (graphics, sound, etc).


3.) Nicole didn't kill Rachel. It is how the story presents it. Claire did it. If this feels "weird" to you, or "off," it goes with my original opening statement. Some things felt "off" because this game was not written by American-English speakers.


4.) Irving most certainly existed. Not sure how or why this was even a thought. Nicole ends up remembering him and you also find those drawings of the Preacher, a small boy child and a small girl child (Pastor Foster, Rachel and Irving).

5.) About the minimal supernatural events: Usually a game will pretty much flat out tell you in the end, if things were in "your" (meaning you, the player, or even the player and protagonist) head or not. A lot of us playing Gone Home also experienced things like this -- admittedly much less -- but it was there. And in/near the end, as most of us found out; it was nothing of the sort and we were scared of just being in a empty, creepy house; alone.

However the game never fully explains whether or not these things are really happening or in our/Nicole's head. Mentioning this for a third time, but again; this game was not written by native American-English speakers. I am inclined to believe, that the developers fully intended these supernatural events as actually existing and happening.

The phone call is explained by Irving. The Pantry door is explained. Rachel's items are even explained; but the other events are not. And again, I believe are supposed to be real in this universe.





-- Closing statement(s) below --

I believe this game should definitely had a Native English speaker, from America, look over the script before the game was released. I think the game could really shine much brighter with a few re-writes and edits. This is something they could have made happen before the console release(s) next week. Instead, expect to see some horror (no pun intended) out of many review sites for the handling of the sensitive topics this game attempts (and mostly fails, sadly) to cover.

[Emblem Parade]

I am enjoying this discussion. Here are my *SPOILER* thoughts.

1) It is very obvious to me that the three adults, Leonard, Claire, and Rachel's father (I forget his name) decided together that Rachel must die. That is the central horror of this story. In this religious town the pregnancy would have destroyed two families and torn apart the community. They felt this was the only way out. Claire was the executioner, but they planned it together, coordinating that final day carefully with the soup kitchen at the church and the hockey game. The emptiness in their life thereafter was not only due to losing Rachel, but also due to their feeling of guilt. I feel there are a lot of little hints in the game to this. It also helps explain how Rachel's death could have been considered a suicide and left at that.

2) There's a disturbing dream sequence in which Leonard seems to confuse his daughter, Nicole, with Rachel. I believe that he felt attraction to his daughter but projected it onto Rachel. Somewhere in her young mind Nicole must have sensed this, and this fueled her jealousy. Wasn't she supposed to be daddy's favorite girl? She hated her father not because he cheated on her mom, but because she felt deep down that he was cheating on her. I think Nicole realized this at the end, which is part of what made her so horrified that she wanted to die. Claire sensed this, too, which is why she wanted to take Nicole very far from her father.

3) Poor Irving idolized Leonard as the father he never truly had. So, weirdly, he was always jealous of Nicole for having such a father. But he also loved his sister and knew that Leonard was somehow responsible for his her death (until the revelations by Nicole, he didn't realize quite how much), and this conflict tore him apart.

(By the way, Irving's "praise" for Leonard ends up being the most controversial part of this game. I've read too many reviews claiming that this game "praises" child rapists. It's very annoying to me that reviewers can't seem to tell the different between Irving, a character in the game, and the game's message itself. I see Leonard coming out as an absolutely terrible human, attracted to his daughter, taking advantage of a young girl (Steam is censoring the "r" word) and eventually an accomplice to her murder. Can we look at the whole game, please, and not just a moment of misunderstood context?)

4) My final theory might be the most far fetched, but I think ... Rachel's father knew about the "affair" and even approved of it. After all, Leonard and him would spend a lot of time together. Could the relationship really have been secret? My thought is that these two depraved men may have struck a deal with each other regarding Rachel. What was this deal? Did Leonard agree to let Rachel's father have a go at his own daughter? Is this part of why Claire wanted to take her very far away? I know this theory doesn't have much support, but I feel that the more I think about this disturbing story, the more disturbing it gets...