So ... let's talk about the story (Spoilers!)

[LilacShore]

One of the reasons I gave this game a negative review ist the storyline. Although I liked the atmosphere and the hotel itself very much and I was intrigued by the character development during the dialogues, the story makes no sense to me.
Not at all.

Don't read further, if you havn't played the game yet.


So, there is Nicole our main character. She seems to be, judging from the dialogues, a brave and selfconfident young woman. Very indipendent and smart. Slowly she discovers the truth about Rachel, while wandering through the old hotel.

We read her mothers letter in the beginning, where she tells Nicole to give the money she gets from selling the hotel to Rachels family, which seems to me quite awkward at that point, but it becomes clear near the end why she demands it.

And we get to know Leonard, Nicoles father, through some details she finds on her way through the hotel. He seemed to be a very clever and educated man with a master degree in Astrophysics. How he ended up in the hotel stays a bit unclear, maybe due to marrying Nicoles mother who knows.
This man falls in love with the sixteen year old Rachel. Ok. It could have been believable, if ... we knew more about Rachel, if apart from beeing dyslexic, there was something, they had in common. The love for the stars, shared feelings for being an outsider in the worlds they live - Leonard, the astrophysic in a hotel - Rachel, maybe an atheist in a deeply religious family - at least something like that, but there is nothing except the claim they were in love and this is thin. very thin. And then there are hints, which make this love so uncomfortable to take in, like the retainer Rachel is still wearing or "her" room in the hotel basement - the room of a child, not of a teeanger. This makes it all very uncanny.
It leaves you unsatisfied. Was it a real love story? Was it plain abuse? The story leaves it so far open to the point where I have the feeling, the creators are undecided themselves and this is never good.

And there is no further explanation about Claire murdering Rachel. How did she find out about the affair? Waht kind of person is Claire? What makes her in the end murder another human being, a sixteen year old? Was it out of the blue? Did she plan it? As we know so little about Claire it just does not add up, in my opinion. For a grown woman to murder a sixteen year old it takes something. And the exact how and way stays unclear. Did Claire love Leonard so much? What was at stake? Yeah sure. Rachel was pregnant. A scandal, I get it. But we know so little, that everything about what leads Claire to the final deed seems far streched to me.
And in the end, she left Leonard anyway with Nicole.

Then, when Nicole remembers all of that she wants to kill herself? Rachel is long dead. Her father is dead, her mother is dead and Irving, Rachels brother kills himself. Irving ... the discovery that he is Rachels brother makes it seem that he is the rabbit jumping out of a hat. Hey, we have a plothole - ok, let's make Irving Rachels brother. Problem solved. What the heck? No hint, no nothing, he just the brother and after finding out the truth he kills himself. Ah ... ok. And now, even after everything is solved, the brave young independent woman Nicole wants to kill herself, too. It made me shook my head in disbelief.

I would have understood, if she suffered, if a dpressed, insecure Nicole would have arrived at the hotel, a woman tortured by her past, but she seems to be so fine that it came as a surprise to me, but not as a good one, not as a delicate plottwist, but as unrealistic as it could get.

In a good thriller the audience is deceived and surprised many times, but all this has to make sense. In this story to me nothing really adds up. Although the overall idea is great and I am not opposed to tell a story about suicide!
I just wish, they would have given the story more careful thoughts and more details. I wish they would have thought about the other characters as well.

My 2 cents about the game.

[VaniKa]

So, let me sum this up. Claire killed Rachel with Nicole's hockey stick, threw her off the cliff during the hockey game and left the bloody blanket in her car, which Nicole finds years later during the actual game. Nobody knew that Claire was the killer and that it wasn't a suicide but murder. That all happend because Leonard had an affair with Rachel, who was also pregnant from him. Nicole was jealous of her because of all the attention Leonard gave Rachel and not his daughter. When Claire and Nicole left the Hotel and Helena for good they have been driven by another person in their car (Nicole's uncle?) which explains why Claire's car is still in the garage after almost 10 years, untouched because of missing keys. Obviously no one bothered to open the car (by force) and look into it.

So far, so good. Now to what isn't as clear...

Did it never bother Claire that a clue to her murdering Rachel was still in her old car, far away from her influence and control? Why did she never try to get rid of it, simply by pretending to fetch her car for example?

Then I wonder why the room with the ghost hunter equipment was sealed. Who sealed it? Leonard? Irving? Was it sealed after the hotel officially closed or after? Was it sealed by Irving just for Nicole? May it be possible that the ghost was sealed in and escaped after Nicole opened the door? If Leonard sealed it why didn't he just throw away the equipment and clean the room to make it inhabitable again?

What purpose had the secret room? Who used this room or lived in it? What's the purpose of painting the walls like Rachel's room? Was she a prisoner and painted the walls herself to make her feel more comfortable? But imprisonment doesn't really make sense because others would have missed her. Having that room just for fun also doesn't make sense because no child would like to go there on their own volition, hidden and completely dark.

How could Nicole's change in behaviour be explained after she found out about the murder her mother committed? Repressed memories, even trauma could suddenly cause the changes. And of course there's the ghost theory, making Rachels vengeful ghost trying to kill herself.

There's this recurring theme of another dimension or afterlife where after death people reunite with their family members, making them embrace death rather than fearing it. Is there any meaning to it? Can it explain things?

Was Irving leaving clues for Nicole, like writings on the blackboards or placing the hockey figure key with a note saying "bread crumb"? Did he stage the mannequins? Or was that all the ghost's work? Irving seemed to have set up Nicole but at the same time he needs her to uncover the truth. So, what did he know and plan before Nicole's arrival and what did he find out only by her later exploring the hotel? I already mentioned the shrine theory, in that Leonard my have created the secret room for himself to mourn Rachel without anyone else noticing. Maybe it was him wanting Nicole (or others) to find out about... what exactly? Did he know what his ex-wife did?

Does the ghost of Rachel actually exist or could the story be explained without her haunting the hotel?

What the game does good is leaving the player constantly wondering what the game allows to happen. Things I wondered: Will there be a real threat like a ghost following Nicole and possibly killing her? Can Irving be trusted or is he some kind of dangerous maniac who could let his mask slip any time and hunt Nicole? The game tries to instill fear but never really follows it through. It only bluffs. Even when Irving's secret is revealed, after a brief period of appearing like he actually is that dangerous maniac we feared him to be, he reverts back to his harmless form and instead commits suicide.

Why the boots in the hotel lobby? They let you think that someone just entered the hotel and is after you. But actually Irving was there the whole time, in the abandoned wing of the building. Well, what would be the purpose of some attacker leaving his boots there? I first thought because it would make him more sneaky. Or Irving left them there because he wouldn't need them on his suicide quest. But did he really wear those boots inside the hotel? Wouldn't they be loud? Again, it doesn't really add up. They seem to be there just to scare the player.

Who is the telephone caller with the distorted voice telling Nicole to stop selling the hotel? I guess it was Irving, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with her mind. At first I thought it was a person who doesn't want the secrets of the hotel to be found. What would be the consequences of selling the hotel? Third parties would enter the hotel, search it and maybe even demolish it. It would be very likely that stuff like the secret room would be found. But what sense does that make after you realize that it's just Irving the whole time and that there are no dead bodies hidden behind walls and that he just wants to find the truth himself? A truth that basically just exists in Nicole's and his mind.

So, unless someone comes up with a good explanation of how all of this makes sense and fits together, I would think that it all worked pretty well to create a scary experience but after the end all that's left is a mess of unexplained things, or plot holes, somehow destroying everything because you realize that there never was any logical concept behind anything. All the detective work in your own head was in vain. That kinda ruins it for me, although I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a theory that explains it all. Did we all overlook something? Are there secrets nobody revealed yet?

So, while the experience was great, after completing the game I feel cheated.

[Latsk]

I felt the same. I did enjoyed the game, but it felt really rushed.

What i think:

Claire told Leonard about what she did, using his "relationship" with Rachel as leverage to keep his mouth shut and flee with Nicole. He never left the hotel again to keep their secrets safe.

I think Irvin is resposible to setup everything in the hotel (rooms, keys, objects, etc).
Also he could easly rig all the paranormal stuff (noises, blackboards, freezer door) to breakdown Nicole, so the paranormal is a maybe.

Talking about paranormal, anyone found the bathroom with the ritual in the second floor?
Three or four candles in the floor near a book with a strange rune, If you close the door from inside the bathroom you can see a big rune painted inside. Also, there is a paper that talk about noises in the walls.

Maybe Leonard or Irving trying to communicate with Rachel? Or was the ghost hunters?
Maybe a reference to Lovecraft's The Rat in the walls?

With that said it was an interesting game, sadly it goes from the beginning to the end skipping the middle.

[Midnight77]

Originally posted by VaniKa:

So, let me sum this up. Claire killed Rachel with Nicole's hockey stick, threw her off the cliff during the hockey game and left the bloody blanket in her car, which Nicole finds years later during the actual game. Nobody knew that Claire was the killer and that it wasn't a suicide but murder. That all happend because Leonard had an affair with Rachel, who was also pregnant from him. Nicole was jealous of her because of all the attention Leonard gave Rachel and not his daughter. When Claire and Nicole left the Hotel and Helena for good they have been driven by another person in their car (Nicole's uncle?) which explains why Claire's car is still in the garage after almost 10 years, untouched because of missing keys. Obviously no one bothered to open the car (by force) and look into it.

So far, so good. Now to what isn't as clear...

Did it never bother Claire that a clue to her murdering Rachel was still in her old car, far away from her influence and control? Why did she never try to get rid of it, simply by pretending to fetch her car for example?

Then I wonder why the room with the ghost hunter equipment was sealed. Who sealed it? Leonard? Irving? Was it sealed after the hotel officially closed or after? Was it sealed by Irving just for Nicole? May it be possible that the ghost was sealed in and escaped after Nicole opened the door? If Leonard sealed it why didn't he just throw away the equipment and clean the room to make it inhabitable again?

What purpose had the secret room? Who used this room or lived in it? What's the purpose of painting the walls like Rachel's room? Was she a prisoner and painted the walls herself to make her feel more comfortable? But imprisonment doesn't really make sense because others would have missed her. Having that room just for fun also doesn't make sense because no child would like to go there on their own volition, hidden and completely dark.

How could Nicole's change in behaviour be explained after she found out about the murder her mother committed? Repressed memories, even trauma could suddenly cause the changes. And of course there's the ghost theory, making Rachels vengeful ghost trying to kill herself.

There's this recurring theme of another dimension or afterlife where after death people reunite with their family members, making them embrace death rather than fearing it. Is there any meaning to it? Can it explain things?

Was Irving leaving clues for Nicole, like writings on the blackboards or placing the hockey figure key with a note saying "bread crumb"? Did he stage the mannequins? Or was that all the ghost's work? Irving seemed to have set up Nicole but at the same time he needs her to uncover the truth. So, what did he know and plan before Nicole's arrival and what did he find out only by her later exploring the hotel? I already mentioned the shrine theory, in that Leonard my have created the secret room for himself to mourn Rachel without anyone else noticing. Maybe it was him wanting Nicole (or others) to find out about... what exactly? Did he know what his ex-wife did?

Does the ghost of Rachel actually exist or could the story be explained without her haunting the hotel?

What the game does good is leaving the player constantly wondering what the game allows to happen. Things I wondered: Will there be a real threat like a ghost following Nicole and possibly killing her? Can Irving be trusted or is he some kind of dangerous maniac who could let his mask slip any time and hunt Nicole? The game tries to instill fear but never really follows it through. It only bluffs. Even when Irving's secret is revealed, after a brief period of appearing like he actually is that dangerous maniac we feared him to be, he reverts back to his harmless form and instead commits suicide.

Why the boots in the hotel lobby? They let you think that someone just entered the hotel and is after you. But actually Irving was there the whole time, in the abandoned wing of the building. Well, what would be the purpose of some attacker leaving his boots there? I first thought because it would make him more sneaky. Or Irving left them there because he wouldn't need them on his suicide quest. But did he really wear those boots inside the hotel? Wouldn't they be loud? Again, it doesn't really add up. They seem to be there just to scare the player.

Who is the telephone caller with the distorted voice telling Nicole to stop selling the hotel? I guess it was Irving, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with her mind. At first I thought it was a person who doesn't want the secrets of the hotel to be found. What would be the consequences of selling the hotel? Third parties would enter the hotel, search it and maybe even demolish it. It would be very likely that stuff like the secret room would be found. But what sense does that make after you realize that it's just Irving the whole time and that there are no dead bodies hidden behind walls and that he just wants to find the truth himself? A truth that basically just exists in Nicole's and his mind.

So, unless someone comes up with a good explanation of how all of this makes sense and fits together, I would think that it all worked pretty well to create a scary experience but after the end all that's left is a mess of unexplained things, or plot holes, somehow destroying everything because you realize that there never was any logical concept behind anything. All the detective work in your own head was in vain. That kinda ruins it for me, although I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a theory that explains it all. Did we all overlook something? Are there secrets nobody revealed yet?

So, while the experience was great, after completing the game I feel cheated.

I'm already forgetting this game like a bad dream but wasn't Nicole lead to the car by Irving? I remember she had to find a medal and soon after that she had to unlock the car. Irving provided the bread crumbs, medal and keys didn't he? So I would think Irving found the blanket and retainer sometime in the past we don't know when and placed them in the trunk on purpose to force Nicole to come to this final location which would lead her to the final act of the game.

[VaniKa]

Originally posted by Latsk:

I think Irvin is resposible to setup everything in the hotel (rooms, keys, objects, etc).

Yes. I just finished my second playthrough and noticed that he has taken pictures from various locations including the secret room and the mezzanine. So he was there before Nicole. But why did he stage the mannequins when he didn't know Claire murdered Rachel? Again, it just doesn't make sense. I uninstalled the game now after getting all achievements, but hopefully someone can come up with some more insight.

Hmm, on second thought, maybe he really did stage everything to drive Nicole insane or make her kill herself. Maybe he didn't commit suicide as he stated but just comes back after Nicole is dead (or insane). That would at least be the most logical explanation. He could just have killed her, though. Or maybe he wanted her to suffer before her death as some kind of revenge. But then he should have sounded more angry when she finally discovers what had happened.

Originally posted by Midnight77:

I'm already forgetting this game like a bad dream but wasn't Nicole lead to the car by Irving? I remember she had to find a medal and soon after that she had to unlock the car. Irving provided the bread crumbs, medal and keys didn't he? So I would think Irving found the blanket and retainer sometime in the past we don't know when and placed them in the trunk on purpose to force Nicole to come to this final location which would lead her to the final act of the game.

Yes. It even says "bread crumb" under the key on the nightstand in the secret room. How subtle.

But... after watching the film by Leonard for Nicole in the attic, maybe it was Leonard who staged it all or most of it, maybe even with help of Irving. After all Irving kept him company after Nicole and Claire left. But that would have meant he knew that Rachel was murdered by Claire. Maybe he found the bloody blanket? It would appear strange if he would just let Claire's car stay in the garage without ever touching it, anyway. Yes, that could be it. He was obsessed with Rachel's death and spent his last years creating a puzzle for his daughter. Maybe that is what Irving meant with "he changed". Irving isn't necessarily an accomplice. He could just have witnessed it at some point or searched the hotel before Nicole did, trying to find out more. Maybe he just wanted to help fulfill Leonard's apparent wish to show the "puzzle" to Nicole, and while doing so find closure for himself, seeing no reason to continue living after that goal is accomplished.

But unfortunately all of this is just wild speculation.

[Midnight77]

Originally posted by VaniKa:

Originally posted by Latsk:

I think Irvin is resposible to setup everything in the hotel (rooms, keys, objects, etc).

Yes. I just finished my second playthrough and noticed that he has taken pictures from various locations including the secret room and the mezzanine. So he was there before Nicole. But why did he stage the mannequins when he didn't know Claire murdered Rachel? Again, it just doesn't make sense. I uninstalled the game now after getting all achievements, but hopefully someone can come up with some more insight.

Hmm, on second thought, maybe he really did stage everything to drive Nicole insane or make her kill herself. Maybe he didn't commit suicide as he stated but just comes back after Nicole is dead (or insane). That would at least be the most logical explanation. He could just have killed her, though. Or maybe he wanted her to suffer before her death as some kind of revenge. But then he should have sounded more angry when she finally discovers what had happened.

Originally posted by Midnight77:

I'm already forgetting this game like a bad dream but wasn't Nicole lead to the car by Irving? I remember she had to find a medal and soon after that she had to unlock the car. Irving provided the bread crumbs, medal and keys didn't he? So I would think Irving found the blanket and retainer sometime in the past we don't know when and placed them in the trunk on purpose to force Nicole to come to this final location which would lead her to the final act of the game.

Yes. It even says "bread crumb" under the key on the nightstand in the secret room. How subtle.

But... after watching the film by Leonard for Nicole in the attic, maybe it was Leonard who staged it all or most of it, maybe even with help of Irving. After all Irving kept him company after Nicole and Claire left. But that would have meant he knew that Rachel was murdered by Claire. Maybe he found the bloody blanket? It would appear strange if he would just let Claire's car stay in the garage without ever touching it, anyway. Yes, that could be it. He was obsessed with Rachel's death and spent his last years creating a puzzle for his daughter. Maybe that is what Irving meant with "he changed". Irving isn't necessarily an accomplice. He could just have witnessed it at some point or searched the hotel before Nicole did, trying to find out more. Maybe he just wanted to help fulfill Leonard's apparent wish to show the "puzzle" to Nicole, and while doing so find closure for himself, seeing no reason to continue living after that goal is accomplished.

But unfortunately all of this is just wild speculation.

I posted my own different story for people who didn't like the original story.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1057750/discussions/0/1751275054061810816/

[VaniKa]

Originally posted by Midnight77:

I posted my own different story for people who didn't like the original story.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1057750/discussions/0/1751275054061810816/

It's too "verbose" in my opinion. Too much action in the end. I would rather like that the different dots would connect better in the original story, so that it all makes more sense and also would explain better why Nicole is brought to commit (near) suicide. I still don't know who created the secret room and who lived there. What explains the wet boots if Irving is actually in the hotel the whole time? The problem with this game is: The single dots are fine during the game, but they don't connect properly. In the end you realize that they seemed to be there just to manipulate the player without any proper explanation. The experience is great, but in the end it all falls apart.

[VaniKa]

Originally posted by Bernard Coleslaw:

This is a problematic nonce game.

No, it isn't. Jeez, I had to google the word "nonce". Pedophilia is a sexual preference for pre-puberty children. Rachel is 16. While being underage and that certainly being problematic it has nothing to do with pedophilia. There is a different term for young adolescent people, ephebophilia. Wikipedia: "Ephebophilia is the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19." That applies to Rachel. But even that isn't necessarily applicable here because that describes a general and "primary" sexual orientation toward such people. This is never implied in the game. Leonard is only shown in love with this one girl and it is never stated that he wasn't in love with and attracted to his wife. It is not even that important to the story whether she is 16 or just turned 18.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by VaniKa:

Originally posted by Bernard Coleslaw:

This is a problematic nonce game.

No, it isn't. Jeez, I had to google the word "nonce". Pedophilia is a sexual preference for pre-puberty children. Rachel is 16. While being underage and that certainly being problematic it has nothing to do with pedophilia. There is a different term for young adolescent people, ephebophilia. Wikipedia: "Ephebophilia is the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19." That applies to Rachel. But even that isn't necessarily applicable here because that describes a general and "primary" sexual orientation toward such people. This is never implied in the game. Leonard is only shown in love with this one girl and it is never stated that he wasn't in love with and attracted to his wife. It is not even that important to the story whether she is 16 or just turned 18.

Apart from that this relationship would be legal in most of the world.
Its still "iffy" because of the large age difference but not illegal in many countries.
The game was made by an Italian developer , the age of consent there is 14.
The publisher is Daedalic a German one, here in Germany the age of consent is also 14 if the partner is no older then 18 and 16 for everything else after that.

I doubt they thought much about how hysteric the typical American is about the topic.
I always have to laugh when someone says having a relationship with a 17 year old is pedophilia.

[verniconb]

Originally posted by onejerky_aye:

Nicole had the choices dudeee..

To me the story is preety good, real life like story driven hehehe

Hmmm... She defended and romantizied her pedo dad... This is a big yikes 4 me doug

[gst]

Originally posted by VaniKa:

So, let me sum this up. Claire killed Rachel with Nicole's hockey stick, threw her off the cliff during the hockey game and left the bloody blanket in her car, which Nicole finds years later during the actual game. Nobody knew that Claire was the killer and that it wasn't a suicide but murder. That all happend because Leonard had an affair with Rachel, who was also pregnant from him. Nicole was jealous of her because of all the attention Leonard gave Rachel and not his daughter. When Claire and Nicole left the Hotel and Helena for good they have been driven by another person in their car (Nicole's uncle?) which explains why Claire's car is still in the garage after almost 10 years, untouched because of missing keys. Obviously no one bothered to open the car (by force) and look into it.

So far, so good. Now to what isn't as clear...

Did it never bother Claire that a clue to her murdering Rachel was still in her old car, far away from her influence and control? Why did she never try to get rid of it, simply by pretending to fetch her car for example?

Then I wonder why the room with the ghost hunter equipment was sealed. Who sealed it? Leonard? Irving? Was it sealed after the hotel officially closed or after? Was it sealed by Irving just for Nicole? May it be possible that the ghost was sealed in and escaped after Nicole opened the door? If Leonard sealed it why didn't he just throw away the equipment and clean the room to make it inhabitable again?

What purpose had the secret room? Who used this room or lived in it? What's the purpose of painting the walls like Rachel's room? Was she a prisoner and painted the walls herself to make her feel more comfortable? But imprisonment doesn't really make sense because others would have missed her. Having that room just for fun also doesn't make sense because no child would like to go there on their own volition, hidden and completely dark.

How could Nicole's change in behaviour be explained after she found out about the murder her mother committed? Repressed memories, even trauma could suddenly cause the changes. And of course there's the ghost theory, making Rachels vengeful ghost trying to kill herself.

There's this recurring theme of another dimension or afterlife where after death people reunite with their family members, making them embrace death rather than fearing it. Is there any meaning to it? Can it explain things?

Was Irving leaving clues for Nicole, like writings on the blackboards or placing the hockey figure key with a note saying "bread crumb"? Did he stage the mannequins? Or was that all the ghost's work? Irving seemed to have set up Nicole but at the same time he needs her to uncover the truth. So, what did he know and plan before Nicole's arrival and what did he find out only by her later exploring the hotel? I already mentioned the shrine theory, in that Leonard my have created the secret room for himself to mourn Rachel without anyone else noticing. Maybe it was him wanting Nicole (or others) to find out about... what exactly? Did he know what his ex-wife did?

Does the ghost of Rachel actually exist or could the story be explained without her haunting the hotel?

What the game does good is leaving the player constantly wondering what the game allows to happen. Things I wondered: Will there be a real threat like a ghost following Nicole and possibly killing her? Can Irving be trusted or is he some kind of dangerous maniac who could let his mask slip any time and hunt Nicole? The game tries to instill fear but never really follows it through. It only bluffs. Even when Irving's secret is revealed, after a brief period of appearing like he actually is that dangerous maniac we feared him to be, he reverts back to his harmless form and instead commits suicide.

Why the boots in the hotel lobby? They let you think that someone just entered the hotel and is after you. But actually Irving was there the whole time, in the abandoned wing of the building. Well, what would be the purpose of some attacker leaving his boots there? I first thought because it would make him more sneaky. Or Irving left them there because he wouldn't need them on his suicide quest. But did he really wear those boots inside the hotel? Wouldn't they be loud? Again, it doesn't really add up. They seem to be there just to scare the player.

Who is the telephone caller with the distorted voice telling Nicole to stop selling the hotel? I guess it was Irving, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with her mind. At first I thought it was a person who doesn't want the secrets of the hotel to be found. What would be the consequences of selling the hotel? Third parties would enter the hotel, search it and maybe even demolish it. It would be very likely that stuff like the secret room would be found. But what sense does that make after you realize that it's just Irving the whole time and that there are no dead bodies hidden behind walls and that he just wants to find the truth himself? A truth that basically just exists in Nicole's and his mind.

So, unless someone comes up with a good explanation of how all of this makes sense and fits together, I would think that it all worked pretty well to create a scary experience but after the end all that's left is a mess of unexplained things, or plot holes, somehow destroying everything because you realize that there never was any logical concept behind anything. All the detective work in your own head was in vain. That kinda ruins it for me, although I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a theory that explains it all. Did we all overlook something? Are there secrets nobody revealed yet?

So, while the experience was great, after completing the game I feel cheated.

All good points tbh, I've been wondering about all of this too.

Just finished my playthrough and I'm trying my best to piece it all together. I do believe Rachel has somewhat of an impact on the physical world and mentally. Nicky after telling Irving her recollection of events explains that things are going dark and that she's scared, calling out Rachel's name before the day ends. We then wake-up in a car that's already setup for suicide. The conversation in the car is towards someone else ("I did all you asked", "Stop it, I'm scared", "You - I don't want to die").

Also would explain all the physical things happening. Like the doors, chalkboard flipping when Irving's no longer around in the hotel, the tape which was most likely Irving but can easily be Rachel's presence. Another notable thing is the butterfly that Nicole seemingly doesn't report or make an internal comment about? Almost like she wasn't even conscious/aware at the time. We had no other blatant game-play device like that in the entire game.

The "Secret Room" is also just very confusing. When Nicky first see's it she describes it as a replica, that everything reminded her of Rachel. And then Irving comments on how could she possibly know what Rachel's room even looked like? Which is very true. What do we not see in-between sequences could be really interesting and would likely answer so many things. What exactly does happen when Nicole sleepwalk or go dark. And why would Leonard or Irving write the word that was used to bully/torment her on the chalkboard if it was actually a "shrine".

The weird encounters too, the "sighting" pictures, Leonard's notebook as well? He mentions vague stuff but the one about her not wanting to do her sessions stand out. Maybe in some weird way the "Secret Room" vent was her way of speaking to him. If you report the vent that's making noise before engaging in the "Bread Crumb" dialogue in the room, they have a conversation about how Nicky used to snoop through the vents throughout the hotel and how this room was actually attached to the attic where Leonard and Rachel would hold their "lessons". It seems like he didn't really hold onto any valuable keepsakes of her in his room or cave (other than the loose sketches). Makes me wonder if he wanted to amplify her comfort/presence there. There's also an electronic toy speech box thing in the secret room.

Lastly, my question is; How could Irving know that the hockey stick itself was indeed the murder weapon without actually seeing it? Someone must have witnessed the murder actually take place, which most likely did happen in the hotel given the time frame. Also I think Irving did mention about being really good at not being noticed? However, Nicky saying everything out loud about her recollection of things wasn't really news to Irving if he had all of these puzzle pieces and his wit. I guess the scene was more of a self realization for Nicky for Rachel's sake, not Irving, if we consider everything else.

I did really love the subtly of this game and the atmosphere it created but I'm stuck on some of these story elements. I hope more companies continue to make interesting titles like this.

[>[Blackthunder]<]

Due my lack of proper english i keep it short, sry beforehand.

1. About Rachel controls you in the Car.
I dont Think so, you can just never touch the engine and wait, and it ends up same as if you turn off the Engine later. That Speaking to herself "i dont want to die" while turning on the Engine, i think its a small form of Split personallty because of the recent shock remembering all what happened, so long hidden in her memorys. Either you beat that and Live to get back your Life , or you dont and dont turn off the Engine.

2. So if Rachel actually is not there as a Ghost, perhaps all the Stuff like self closing doors, the Chalkboard turning, are visions, from slowly getting crazy, things happen always short after receiving certain messages that probaly trigger parts of memorys.

3. The Mannequins, im not really sure, i guess Dad set it up. I think he knew all what happened, that was the "fight" before mother leaved the Hotel. He still loved her and Nicky. Even that she killed her. (That whole part can be totally false, im really not sure)
But something happened in that room, remember NIcky got told to "close the Mezzamin".

4. Where is Irving, my best bet, he is in the Hidden Room, which he built. I dont want to replay the game a 3rd time, unless they add some Skip Options. But i wonder if its still possible to go in that room while you regain control when Irving is talking about to go back to "her".

The wet Boots appears after you be in the Mezzamin and you her footsteps running away, you could think he goes to the Attic, but i dont think so, i think its already Set Up. But guess its not that important.

Yeah i wish a Skip option, or atleast a Chapter select, to search certain parts a bit closer not having to play the game over and over in slow mode.

[Diaten]

Everyone's talking about Rachel's ghost, but I actually think that the ghost that possesses Nicole in the end is her father's ghost. You see, I've watched the game in Russian translation (excuse my English, btw), and in the translated text it's clear that Nicole is talking to a man, not woman.
More importantly, after player cancels suicide, Nicole says: "I'll stay here with you, daddy". Then she talks to her mom, too.
So, what I'm trying to say is - may we have more than one ghost in the game? :)

[Randolph Carter]

Originally posted by LilacShore:

It seems to me - with the mannequins and the hockey stick, that at some point during plotting, the creators thought about Nicole as Rachels murderer and than abandoned the idea. Whether they thought it would be too controversial or I don't know.
The story fells so half way to me. Not really thought through, not really realistic, not really satisfying.

Exactly my thoughts. Do you remember the door locked with a chain that leads to the ski run or something like that? I think its the only door you can look at and the game displays text, but you can't open it. I bet the devs planned the possibility to save Irving or something, but abandoned that idea, too. He said he sees white everywhere and Nicole concludes that he must have left the hotel. My first thought was he is heading to the cliff where Claire dumped Rachel and now Nicole is going to prevent him from killing himself or smth. I think that wouldn't be statisfying either, but better than the "ghost forces you to do suicide and if you fight back you go bonkers regardless" ending. Meh.

[VaniKa]

Yeah, that would have been a nice conclusion. Both Nicole and Irving finally leave behind the past and go on that date they talked about.

[NRieh]

I'm not going to spoiler-hide stuff, because it's very unlikely to 'spoil' something for someone reading 3 pages deep into a spoiler-tagged thread. :)

Some people had already mentioned that, and I also think that "Nicole=killer" version of plot makes the MOST sense all the time, but it's likely the very reason why they had ditched it. Like it would be way too obvious at some point and...well, it DOES make sense, right? It looks like they came up with their 'plot-twist' too late, and most of the content had been created by that moment.

1. Weapon of a choice. A hockey-player teen girl uncovers her father's affair not long before the game.She gets mad. She doesn't have anything, but her hockey stick at hand. Mother comes in a minute too late. Mother DOES clean her bloody murder weapoon and wants to cover the tracks, protecting what's left of her family. Fits the picture so much better than mom borrowing her beloved daughter's hockey stick (not knife, axe, shovel or any of the ski equipment) to end her husband's affair.

2. Nicole's deinal and amnesia. Girl herself was traumatized and in shock, right after the murder she clings to what's nice and familiar (which is her great game). Another reason why Nicole has trouble remembering what was mom and dad arguing about. She's literally oblivious, and her mother wants to keep it it that way. Clair confronts her husband (note, he's probably still unaware of the details, no body is found yet etc) and takes Nicky away. She wants her to sell the hotel and never look back.

3. Dad's mad. Eventually they discover the body and sh!t hits the fan. People talk, hotel buisness gets worse. He knows that it was not a suicide, he may or may knot know the details (was it Clair? Was it his little Nicky? He had lost both of them anyway). He suffers from a long lasting mental breakdown, which may (or may not) explain 'seeing Rachel'.

4. Li'l brother. I'd assume he hated Leonard, may be he was trying to get closer and get the revenge on him. Before he realized that he did care about his sister (well, in his own way), and that he was one of the few people trying to uncover the truth about her death. Unfortunately, prolonged contacts with mentally ill people may also be...unheathy. Hidden room was probably his doing. He was obsessed with revenge and finding the truth. He did his best to make Nicky remember and tell him the truth(e.g. mannequin room). He might or might not wanted to bring justice and kill her.

5. The Suicide. Nicole overwhelmed by her own personal long buried and denied experience and (finally) blaming herself makes much more sense than her struggling with the truth about her long time gone mother.


X. Rachel's ghost. Technically, we do not know whether it exists or not. Nicole sees and hears some stuff, but most of it can be explained with the imagination+traumatizing experience+being locked alone in a creepy abandoned hotel. Some of it had obviously been staged by Irving, to encourage her memory.