NGS Story is Terrible

[Syn]

I realise some may put more stock in gameplay and/or excessive monetisation issues but for me the story and setting is quite important too.

I've enjoyed such since the original PSO, and found their worlds and stories fascinating.
Not perfect, no. But still pretty engaging. This includes PSO2.
Which brings me to NGS' story.

It's awful.

The worldbuilding and setting is already a problem for me.
Halpha is beautiful visually, but completely dead as a setting. There's no believable infrastructure or worldbuilding. Just a tiny outpost labelled as a "city" in Aelio (and Retem's is even worse). I've been to back yards bigger and more populated than Central City.

But none of that would matter if the story was at least decent. It isn't at all. It's boring, meandering and pointless full of characters I don't care about and random predictable events.
Chapter 2 is particularly bad, with a series of ridiculous events and stupid decisions by a terrible character whom the story decides to focus on for no good reason.
But the worst part is that the player character is a complete non-entity. It was somewhat okay to deal with in Chapter 1 as things were being set up, but in Chapter 2 it's utterly egregious. The player character just stands there doing nothing in every cutscene, barely acknowledged, not a single dialogue option, nothing.

Yes, the PC in PSO/PSU has always been silent.
Yes, dialogue options in PSO2 were an illusion of choice and nothing more.
Yes, the PC was subordinate to the waifu of the week's story in PSO2 just like they are to Manon in NGS.

But the difference is PSO2's story still revolved around the player character and gave the impression that you had agency even if you didn't. The story was very much about the PC.
In NGS it doesn't even bother to pay lipservice to that anymore. You could remove the PC from every cutscene in the game and change absolutely nothing.
Even the PC's supposed unique trait of being a Meteorn is immediately made redundant by Manon and it gets worse from there.

It's boring and unsatisfying.

Also while on the subject of cutscenes.
It is the Year of Our Lord Two-Thousand and Twenty-Two.How, HOW is it possible that they still haven't learned to equip our character with our own weapons during cutscenes?

[Crystal Sharrd]

Originally posted by ₳Ɽ₮Ɏom:

Originally posted by Oniyoru:

Why you say "they killed Quna"?
They killed PSO2, Quna just happened to be there.

Quna cant be there, we r 1000 years in the future.
And there may be rights involving the use of her voice and songs (NGS may be seem as another game in legal way, since its standing even as a different game on SEGA Financial Report)

Quna is their property, the singer sold her tracks to sega, AFAIK her songs are sega's property unitill pso2 shuts down

i think ngs should've never existed in the first place or at least should've been delayed by a year or two, but a Quna hologram would've been a nice gesture towards the pso2 playerbase that quit (70%+ of them)
imo HMZK knows that NGS flopped and he just hates pso2 for it, at least that's my theory why we won't see pso2 story elements, well apart from dark falz who is a boring enemy after being used for 9 years

the NA team isn't really helping either with a CM that focuses more on irrelevant issues like weapon names that upset his feelings instead of focusing on the fact that we don't even have all the JP content

Originally posted by Oniyoru:

- 3 days you mean for shop? Well you NGS isnt a charity and need to pay itself right? They need to get money somehow, subscription (premium) is the most basic one to keep a server.

the least they could do to combat inflation is SG 3 day shop passes, we had FUN passes but as players quit due to sega being lazy they had to remove them in favor of subs.
NGS is in a state where whalers and other hardcore players have most of the wealth (i've seen some people with 100kk lol) i'm not saying we should redenominate n-meseta yet, but making the shop more available for casual players is key to stopping the inflation spiral, personally i'd say the real inflation in NGS is at 20%+/month with hairstyles and some other rare items (in case if you're not into economics, governments usually panic when inflation is that high)

It can't even be a real Dark Falz, due to Episode VI.

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by Miles Bluefalls:

Originally posted by Ikagura:

Yes, it does.

Rico's logs in Episode 1, Elly and Flowen's in Episode 2 and the various side quests adds a lot to the lore and story of Ragol.

It's not because it isn't told in your face that it doesn't have a story.

To be perfectly honest this is my kind of narration in videogames instead of putting many unskippable cutscenes.

The BULK of the worldbuilding in PSO1 was thru the side quests. The Rico datapods in base PSO1 were the "breadcrumbs" of "here was someone who tried to figure out what happened before me", in what were otherwise straightshot "one dungeon leads to the next" layout. Which worked fine as a "here is the most barebones part of the plot" kind of thing.

Then you get to the side quests, which have to deal with the personnel and civilians of Pioneer 2, themselves either trying to find out what happened, or preparing for the future. Pretty much all of the fleshing out of the setting happened thru the side quests.

And it worked. It really worked. I WANTED to "take a break" between each area to go do the side stuff. It kind of got lopsided in Episode 2, since the first 2 new areas were written off as "VR training to find good exploration candidates", but then the back end of Episode 2 had that same kind of worldbuilding come back with a vengence, and then you had Elly and her whole other plotline.

It's almost a shame the PSO2 plotline is delivered the way that it is. Even with the cuts made for Global, it's pretty much "here was a way for them to get you to sink your time with cutscenes because they wanted PSO2 to be an actual MMO you log into every day, and the actual content doesn't match that model". The way the PSO2 story is presented.... REALLY makes me wish there was an offline version of it, as PSO1/U had.


(...speaking of PSO1, MAN, they really made that whole "breadcrumb" thing work. Getting to the Ruins for the first time, and having that music kick in, and having one of those centaur jerks rush at you going "HEY, that thing was from another PS game, that's bad news!". That was one hell of a drop on a player, then. Real "yeah, this got real" moment, and made me want to just turn around, run back to town, and start PREPARING.)

And when you just wanted to go through levels without caring too much about story you weren't forced to see cutscenes.

I liked it in the original Dreamcast versions when you had to do the pillar quest before entering the Ruins because of the 3 seal (obviously it becomes a chore after several playthroughs but it was a really nice thing for world building and longevity) then when you finally enter the ruins you can feel that it was the last stop before the end.

PS: the Chaos Sorcerers were also from the older PS games, I like seeing recurring monsters that aren't the rappy.

[Gilver Redgrave]

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

It can't even be a real Dark Falz, due to Episode VI.

Its said Dark Falz returns every 1000 years after its defeated. NGS plays 1000 years after we defeated it. So why cant it be the real Dark Falz ? We just sealed it we didnt kill it.

[Crystal Sharrd]

Originally posted by Gilver Redgrave:

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

It can't even be a real Dark Falz, due to Episode VI.

Its said Dark Falz returns every 1000 years after its defeated. NGS plays 1000 years after we defeated it. So why cant it be the real Dark Falz ? We just sealed it we didnt kill it.

In Episode VI's true ending you kill the Primordial Darkness for good.
In the bad ending, the first one you play through, after you defeat Shiva and the Primordial Darkness possesses you, you travel back in time to before the universe formed. The Primordial Darkness fades away because it has nothing to destroy and you become the light that forms the universe.
My theory is that since these ARKS are stranded on Halpha and seemingly have lost most of their records, the name Dark Falz was passed down verbally and lost its original meaning, become associated with any powerful enemy that is difficult to defeat.
Or I could be wrong and the Dark Falz are somehow back without the Primordial or Profound Darknesses.

[Gilver Redgrave]

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

[
In Episode VI's true ending you kill the Primordial Darkness for good.

The Franchise is a decade old now and its well known for years that Dark Falz/Primordial Darkness cant be killed so i am not going to argue about that yet again.

And Dark Falz is nothing more then a fragment of Primordial Darkness (at least in term of PSO2s story) so if Dark Falz is there then so is Primordial.

[VanillaLucia]

Originally posted by Miles Bluefalls:

It's almost a shame the PSO2 plotline is delivered the way that it is. Even with the cuts made for Global, it's pretty much "here was a way for them to get you to sink your time with cutscenes because they wanted PSO2 to be an actual MMO you log into every day, and the actual content doesn't match that model". The way the PSO2 story is presented.... REALLY makes me wish there was an offline version of it, as PSO1/U had.

Despite how empty its story was for the most part due to it being retconned and building up for very little of anything, I liked how Phantasy Star Nova's story was delivered as the mystery of the world of Machia as the Delta Valiant crew discover more of the truth regarding the Photoners (things the player from Phantasy Star Online 2 would have been able to figure out and guess - but these are random ARKS Explorers who were caught in the mix after being gunned down by Darkers and being trapped on a planet that disabled their use of photons).

At the same time, the mobile games like PSO2es set up a pocket of the world of Oracle that helps bring insight into other characters of the series and expands the world by showing that ARKS isn't all about just outright killing Darkers but rather are also about finding ways to discover the nature of the Photoners before them which led to the creation of the Weaponoids (Genesis Weapons/Cosmogenic Arms being Photoners who have their souls turned into weapons for a particularly strong will - Weaponoids are anthropomorphized weapons-turned-people). I recall that game was the only known instance where a Dark Falz was legitimately destroyed (Dark Falz [Haddaj] was destroyed story-wise and has not returned in the story since then).

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

My theory is that since these ARKS are stranded on Halpha and seemingly have lost most of their records, the name Dark Falz was passed down verbally and lost its original meaning, become associated with any powerful enemy that is difficult to defeat.
Or I could be wrong and the Dark Falz are somehow back without the Primordial or Profound Darknesses.

Depending on how you see it, IDOLA Phantasy Star Saga takes place in the "distant" future following Phantasy Star Online 2 and there is a conflict that leads to Dark Falz [Theatre] being unleashed and released. The styling of this particular Dark Falz is closer to what we have seen in Phantasy Star Online 2 so I am still of the belief that at some point New Genesis will have to either answer to where IDOLA Phantasy Star Saga ties in or if this is yet another "possible world" retcon where New Genesis and IDOLA Phantasy Star Saga cannot co-exist.

It may make sense that the Primordial Darkness was destroyed - but it happened numerous times after defeating the Profound Darkness that everything was "solved" for the time being and it justified keeping ARKS around due to the timeloop the Profound Darkness was trapped in. I would imagine that the Primordial Darkness may have been defeated - but that it's not the "only" darkness out there considering the nature of photons and how the Photoners lost themselves.

Personally to me, the more exciting story I would have loved to have seen unfold would have been a bittersweet ending for Episode 6 (Shiva or the Primordial Darkness ends up winning and taking over the universe and New Genesis has the Guardian waking up to try and recollect their power/allies to try and turn things around). Sega unfortunately had too many plot holes left open by the side material that even their other side material (like Episode Oracle) still leaves gaps and holes so I feel that Sega intentionally may be trying to sidestep all that worldbuilding and lore for a "Dark Falz is back for real" which means we may likely see no explanation as to how or why - but we'll likely see another Profound Darkness and Primordial Darkness considering New Genesis' internal name in the game's folder.

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by Gilver Redgrave:

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

In Episode VI's true ending you kill the Primordial Darkness for good.

The Franchise is a decade old now and its well known for years that Dark Falz/Primordial Darkness cant be killed so i am not going to argue about that yet again.

And Dark Falz is nothing more then a fragment of Primordial Darkness (at least in term of PSO2s story) so if Dark Falz is there then so is Primordial.

3 decades* old and the Profound Darkness was destroyed in End of Millennium.

[Oniyoru]

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

Originally posted by Gilver Redgrave:

Its said Dark Falz returns every 1000 years after its defeated. NGS plays 1000 years after we defeated it. So why cant it be the real Dark Falz ? We just sealed it we didnt kill it.

In Episode VI's true ending you kill the Primordial Darkness for good.
In the bad ending, the first one you play through, after you defeat Shiva and the Primordial Darkness possesses you, you travel back in time to before the universe formed. The Primordial Darkness fades away because it has nothing to destroy and you become the light that forms the universe.
My theory is that since these ARKS are stranded on Halpha and seemingly have lost most of their records, the name Dark Falz was passed down verbally and lost its original meaning, become associated with any powerful enemy that is difficult to defeat.
Or I could be wrong and the Dark Falz are somehow back without the Primordial or Profound Darknesses.

From what it seems (taking Phantasy Stars as a whole), it cant be permanently destroyed.

We can beat and destroy it for sure, but it'll take 1000 years to reform and come back.

What we did was escape from the loop created with PD, Shiva and us. Plus saving our timeline

[Crystal Sharrd]

Originally posted by Oniyoru:

Originally posted by Crystal Sharrd:

In Episode VI's true ending you kill the Primordial Darkness for good.
In the bad ending, the first one you play through, after you defeat Shiva and the Primordial Darkness possesses you, you travel back in time to before the universe formed. The Primordial Darkness fades away because it has nothing to destroy and you become the light that forms the universe.
My theory is that since these ARKS are stranded on Halpha and seemingly have lost most of their records, the name Dark Falz was passed down verbally and lost its original meaning, become associated with any powerful enemy that is difficult to defeat.
Or I could be wrong and the Dark Falz are somehow back without the Primordial or Profound Darknesses.

From what it seems (taking Phantasy Stars as a whole), it cant be permanently destroyed.

We can beat and destroy it for sure, but it'll take 1000 years to reform and come back.

What we did was escape from the loop created with PD, Shiva and us. Plus saving our timeline

Was sorta hoping that Matoi and the Guardian would get a happy ending and spend the rest of their lives as ARKS's female power couple.

[k-ricks]

Originally posted by Oniyoru:

From what it seems (taking Phantasy Stars as a whole), it cant be permanently destroyed.

We can beat and destroy it for sure, but it'll take 1000 years to reform and come back.

What we did was escape from the loop created with PD, Shiva and us. Plus saving our timeline

"1000 years" was a thing in rpg. it was the time seal has weaken state so PD the God of Darkness can send her DF out to do her bidding

PD die in PSlV no more DF end of story then we got PSO1 new DF new lore then we had SEEDs on another universe in PSU and whatever was in PSP they don't have connection to each other as same as PSO2 "1000 years" doesn't mean "reform and come back" but it will has its own meaning

[Gilver Redgrave]

Originally posted by Oniyoru:

From what it seems (taking Phantasy Stars as a whole), it cant be permanently destroyed.

We can beat and destroy it for sure, but it'll take 1000 years to reform and come back.

What we did was escape from the loop created with PD, Shiva and us. Plus saving our timeline

The really relevant fact however which most people still ignore is the plot twist in PSO2. Its said that "Dark Falz" cant be killed/destroyed however the plot twist in PSO2 is that Dark Falz was just a fragment of Primordial Darkness helping it escape its prison. Most people still claim that Dark Falz and Primordial is the same which isnt wrong because its the same entity however its not the same being. Look at it like Perfect Cell from Dragonball. He can also spawn mini versions of himself and they are exact copys of him (just younger). So Dark Falz in PSO2 is just the minime version of Primordial.

On top of that it was clearly statet that it cant be defeated unless we get rid of all Photons which in return means killing like 90% of life in the whole Universe. We never pulled a Thanos on the Universe so claiming Primordial is dead is very naive. Its just at the beginning of time and sooner or later time will start there and its free again. Or some Random new villain gets it outta there directly via some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ story plot twist.

Its kinda funny tho. All Primordial wants is eradicating all Photons which means killing itself in return aswell. I am wondering if Primordials wish is simply dying. Makes us kinda look like the evil ones here making it suffer on our behalves.

[VanillaLucia]

Originally posted by Gilver Redgrave:

Its kinda funny tho. All Primordial wants is eradicating all Photons which means killing itself in return aswell. I am wondering if Primordials wish is simply dying. Makes us kinda look like the evil ones here making it suffer on our behalves.

When taken into account, Phantasy Star Nova's story also dives into how everything that happened on Machia was due to the fault of the Photoners to the point where even the Gigantes (the weapons created to combat Photoners or anything wielding photons) were still vengeful against the stranded ARKS Crew there.

I feel in a very simple way, Xion mentioned that she really could have avoided all of the game's conflicts by avoiding the Photoners altogether and it was later echoed by Matoi who mentioned that she could eliminate herself wielding all the photons and negative energy to save everyone. That later does have me questioning what Casra mentioned as well - that if the Primordial Darkness was truly defeated there will be resentment and fear of those who still wield photons - and I would imagine that despite the deepest of darknesses being destroyed there really is not running from the fact that ARKS was created to fight Darkers (if I recall, the Japanese version writes it as D-ARKers). The conflict was always as simple as "these are the enemy of ARKS" and the early plot wrote itself into a circle depicting that even ARKS wasn't to be trusted.

[Gilver Redgrave]

Well there are just some holes in what Casra and Xion said.

Xion is pretty much saying that she blames the Photoners however the Photoners also fought Primordial Darkness and managed to seal it by sacrificing their own race (exept Luther who didnt care). So while the Photoners indeed did alot wrong rubbing everything off them is also kinda naive. Sure Photoners had huge loads of negative Photons but Primordial was there long before them already.

And Casras statement to me makes no sense. If the Primordial Darkness was really "truly defeated" then there aint anyone left with Photons. So his argument that people with Photons would be feared is kinda invalid because if there are People with Photons the Primordial Darkness will return once the first spark of negative Photons emerge.

And the conflict between ARKs and D-ARKers isnt as simple as it looks.
Sure D-ARKers wanna kill everyone and everything that has Photons and ARKs wants to protect life in the Universe. However Photons are the very reason why D-ARKers exist in the first place. So ARKs in truth protects the real source of the so called "evil" because they dont wanna die or let anyone die for real peace. D-ARKers on the other hand just want to destroy Photons and in return themself because D-ARKers cant exsist without Photons.And it was explained that Photons are not needed for life in the Universe because there are people living completely without Photons. So Photons are pretty much the one and only unneeded source of all evil. I say unneeded because you dont need them like at all for anything. They make everything easy yes but they are not relevant for life itself.


Photons are pretty much just a "trade". You gain power but in exchange you need to fight for your life because D-ARKers get created that will hunt you down.

[Kuromori]

I normally really like MMO stories if they are well written like FF14. But the characters in NG are so extremely annoying and cringe its even worse than the recent "Tails Of" if it comes to anime tropes...

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by Kuromori:

I normally really like MMO stories if they are well written like FF14. But the characters in NG are so extremely annoying and cringe its even worse than the recent "Tails Of" if it comes to anime tropes...

I thought people played MMOs mostly for gameplay.