If you are a PSO veteran you will find an issue with PSO2 aesthethics. Here is why...

[Reia]

I've been playing PSO since I was 12 and now I am 32 years old. The game combines a bit of dark space fantasy with cyberpunk blade runner aspects with good old 80s and 90s style influence. Meanwhile PSO2 is a completely different game focused on colorful and TV japanese anime style themes and tropes everywhere. And if you were a western fan of PSO you might feel conflicted and sometimes cringed with the direction of PSO2, specially in EP4.

You might find this is one of the predominant reasons why this game never came to the west? Then yes you guessed right but it wasn't the only reason. For it I'll talk a bit about PSO1's development.

It all started since the Sega Saturn days when SEGA wanted to get into the online games market on console since they are a total blast on PC. Forgive me as I am not good remembering japanese names so I'll name them by roles, the future to become producer of PSO wanted it originally to be a coop game, which resulted to be "Burning Rangers!", but the online didn't work so they made it a single player game instead. But they still took the game engine and moved it to a new title Which originally wasn't going to be Phantasy Star Related, they took inspiration mostly from the Diablo franchise from Blizzard. Which he said "Diablo 1 and 2 are such a fun coop experience Action RPG, but sadly it's westernized aesthethics doesn't make it appealing for the japanese people, I want to make a game like Diablo but for Japan!" and that's how the initial idea began for an action RPG instead but still taking the cooperative focus (Unlike Diablo that was a solo game with ocasional coop, PSO would feature more roughened situations where players would have to work together to level up and beat the game). Why am I getting so long with this? Because Diablo WAS A HUGE INFLUENCE IN THE GAME'S DIRECTION. Originally it was suppossed to be a Dark Fantasy medieval setting game, until SONIC TEAM's Daddy Yuji Naka came and said you are making a dark game? Why not use phantasy star? It is very popular on SEGA and it is dark on it's own! And that's how it got later shaped into PSO.

This game featured dark themes and future sci fi like mentioned, the game launched but they didn't got the expected results they wanted (During this times it was the downfall of SEGA, they needed big hit success with this title or otherwise the company would face serious issues, which is what happenned with PSO and many of the franchises that were working at the same time). Japanese sales were much lower than their anticipation but they had unexpectedly huge sales on the west, but it wasn't enough. In the end they failed on their goal of making a Diablo game for the japanese, not only people found it "Too spooky and unnerving for their taste" also the development team was uneasy with the style of the game, and said next time we will make the next game more colorful and bright anime themed but we don't want to upset the fanbase so they made PSU instead! (Even the game featured an offline storymode that it's presentation and storytelling was like a 10 episode anime show with each episode having cuts, openings, and endings, etc.)

PSU launched around 5 to 6 years later, respecting the wish of the development team they went for a more of a SONIC TEAM like game. The game was a MASSIVE SUCCESS in japan! But it got SERIOUS BACKLASH IN THE WEST! Why? Well let's talk now how was PSO in the west!

PSO launched in 2000, and it was a huge hit, during this time it was known as a "Dark Age" for online MMOs, all their models were getting old and dated, with games like ultima online, runescape, etc. When PSO came westerners loved it! Basically because it is like Diablo but better (And those with unfamiliar with Diablo really liked how the game was an improved version of it on it's own rights!). This made PSO a cult classic for online gamers, but this success only lasted for 4 years, with the game that ended the dark age of MMOs. World of Warcraft! After WoW's release it only took 1 year for PSO's west subscription to plummet down massively and shut down the server due to not having enough playerbase for SEGA to consider profitable enough to hold the servers.

Now PSU comes and veterans get excited, only to find out it's nothing like PSO, saying "Why this game turned into some Weaboo garbage!?" being confused at the massive change in direction the game took in favour of the staff, this became clear that "What the westerners wanted isn't what the development team wanted to take on". Sum up this with the facts that SEGA is in tatters in 2006, they can't produce a game that can compete with WoW in terms of gameplay and most westerners just called the game bad becuase they compared it with WoW, and also called it bad because it didn't share the dark themes of PSO.

This is where SEGA 5 years later decided to pull off the attention off the west, they concluded the facts that:
1. They know what the westerners want but our dev team don't want to make a game with the same style as PSO, it was too stressful to develop.
2. Japanese people didn't like PSO as much as they liked PSU, and the japanese sales were abysmally high, meaning japanese audience takes priority first.
3. Even if they could give attention to the west, it would be too costly and risky, due to their mainstream competitor Blizzard Games who they don't have any hopes of beating them in the western market.

They did release some phantasy star games before PSO2 but they only came out in japan, I think they were 4 total. (PSPo2, PSPo2i and a reboot of the original Phantasy Star 1 and 2)

1 year later PSO2 gets announced and everyone is hyped. The PSO producer (please if anyone remembers his name tell me because I forgot!) wanted to finally make a sequel to PSO2 as a vice-producer, and worked with Sakai who was in PSO the main game designer, mostly credited for
it's memorable monster designs and PSU's producer. To go back to it's darker themes, but not as edgy as the original but a game that would appease both east and west. The game not only was going to be out in english but also in multiple languages like spanish, french, german, etc.

But then close to the release the PSO producer left SEGA, reasons not disclosed, sounded like personal issues mostly. This actually broken the hopes of the game taking a direction for global, since they were planning to make it as two sepparate content for global and japan, without him they felt like they wouldnt be able to do it and pulled it back, leaving our notable silence. There is also the fact that SEGA was very concerned of the fall of the MMO genre and wanted it to play it more safe and stay in japan only, which allowed Sakai as now taking full producer role to make the game more appeasing for the japanese people with more content relatable to their culture.

So in the end we have PSO2 and this is why it is so different from PSO. Hopefully you would be able to understand that it wasn't that PSO became goofy, but rather PSO was a Black Sheep in SONIC TEAM (now known as the PHANTASY STAR TEAM), and they did want to work games following their usual vibe instead. So there is nothing wrong with disliking it because it is more colorful and anime, as we are not gonna get an anime style dark space fantasy with a diablo like vibe again.

A fun anecdote is that PSO2 Episode 4 is the most successful thing that happenned to SEGA in a long time, and most westerners hated it! Because they thought it was isekai and some other kind of anime trending topics that are extremely cringe for the west (thou in my honest opinion EP4 is pretty good! It just started very rough with both gameplay and story presentation at the beggining). And the Dev team is absolutely proud of their direction since this is what they wanted for a phantasy star game.

As a closing message to this long story, I want to tell that as someone who spent 20 years since PSO's original release on the dreamcast, PSO2 is the most PSO game ever. Both in gameplay and as an experience, it has all that made PSO but expanded upon. It was hard even for me to get used to the changes of this game brought over the original until i came to understand the whole history and decided to see it with a more broaded mindset. Now that you understand why they became like "this"... You are free to decide if you want to accept PSO2 as it is or not. Worth a try at the end, specially when EP5 and 6 comes but If you feel they betrayed your expectations and don't want to play it because of that you are free to don't accept it and move over. PSO is still an unforgettable memory after all!

[BearPajamaGod!]

Цитата допису Curious Mando:

if i didnt have to pay to even use the player market as a buyer, not a seller, Id get into this game, but ♥♥♥♥ paying $15+ amonth for a sub AND paying $5 more a month just to browse the player merket looking to customize my characters.

You don't have to pay a cent to use the player market as a buyer or a seller get your facts straight

[AnonTwo]

I mean...the easy explanation is "sex sells" and that the atmosphere is different because everyone around you buys half-naked/practically naked gear rather than the more PSO-like gear.

There's technically dark stuff in the game still, like the experimentations, fellow ARK members being corrupted (and being a fairly known possibility).

Hell even in the anime they can't go a single episode without someone dying. Several of which are fairly gory....

If you can find a place to stand away from the lobby, and put on your base gear, you could put PSO1 and PSO2 side by side and they would aesthetically look the same.

[Ikagura]

Цитата допису Miraglyth:

This is nothing new for the series. I would recommend looking at the in-game character portraits in both Phantasy Star II[fantasyanime.com] (1989) and Phantasy Star IV[fantasyanime.com] (1993).

Online may have diverged a little by having a reduced anime stylising, but that doesn't mean Online 2 introduced something that wasn't there before. That'd be like saying people would have an issue with Myau as a new creature when musk cats' place in the series is older than Sonic.

Yeah, Phantasy Star III was the gritiest-looking of the classic serie (it looked like an Amiga WRPG more than a Genesis JRPG).

PSO's artstyle almost looked more like a comic than a manga.

Цитата допису AnonTwo:

the atmosphere is different because everyone around you buys half-naked/practically naked gear rather than the more PSO-like gear.

I wish the Ragol Memories stuff wasn't locked behind a paywall and timed events...

[Reia]

Цитата допису Remnar:

PSO1 did well because it was fun and different. It was the first 3D MMO on the Dreamcast (to my knowledge). PSO1 combat was fun. Progression was fun, and difficult. It was worth grinding the same thing over and over to find that rare that allowed you to progress even further, eventually into Ultimate where monsters looked different and were super hard to defeat. I really don't get that in PSO2. Ruins in PSO2 is a joke. It's not even ruins like it was in PSO1, but remants of a fight that occured a few decades ago in the story. Big woop. In PSO1, the Ruins were real, alien, and contained a dark secret. The music also made it wonderful.

Not only that, it was SEGA's attempt at making a very first online game on a console! I am unsure if they succeeded, seems like it, if I recall most online games came at least a few months after.

Цитата допису Ikagura:

Dark fantasy in general don't sell that well...

Well it sells much more in the west, look at Diablo for example, Diablo 3 was massively critisized for using more colorful pallets and Diablo doesn't look goatish demonic enough in that game and it's less terrifying.

Цитата допису Ryoga:

Цитата допису Reia:

So you could also theorize that instead of being inspired from PSO, both PSO and Borderlands were inspired from the same game.

Like you said we don't exactly know what inspired Borderlands but Borderlands has definitely more in common with PSO than Diablo. The setting is pretty much the same: it's futuristic Si-Fi and you're on a planet where some immortal evil space god monster is sealed away. In both games you're some kind of mercenary that works for cash and there are militaristic forces that want to use the situation for their benefit. The way how Dark Falz (PSO) and the Destroyer are portrayed is pretty much identical which stands in sharp contrast to how the multiple versions of Dark Falz are portrayed in PSO2.

Цитата допису Reia:

it always been an ENDLESS GRIND game since the first one

The grind isn't the issue, the issue is the power creep. The original PSO had very little power creep after you reached the ultimate mode. The Frozen Shooter you found in forest never stopped being useful, same with many other items. I always found that this horizontal approach to item design was vastly superior to the standard power creep version which only really makes sense for traditional single player RPGs. It looks like they only regressed to the bad system in order to push people to buy more upgrade items for real money (well either that or they're just incompetent).

Yes this is why I kinda hold to both, but all we're doing is theorizing, since I don't have any solid info about borderlands developers to claim myself that is the case.

The powercreep it is an issue, then again in PSO and PSU you would reach a state of powercreep where you demolish the entire enemy and the bosses were barely any challenging but it certainly took thousands of hours, felt rewarding rather than given. I always thought the reason they decided to do that was mostly because of the existance of raids and wanted to also give players the ability to become strong enough to solo said raid bosses, knowing the developers mentality I could theorize that was the case (besides wanting to leech out some obsessive person to actually do it as his own way of pay2win). Those are fights that yes they are challenging even for a powercreep character, later EP5 and 6 down the road introduces extremely hardcore mode that even with powercreep they are hard to beat, sadly most are solo challenges. Then again similar to warframe the powercreep issue of PSO2 it all depends on how it bothers you that others destroy the game or not, if you simply don't care you won't. I've been playing Castlevania games and you can either try to rush the game which turns it into a challenging platformer or you can farm a ton of stuff and become a powercreep character, either way is meant to satisfy each type of player and I think it is kinda the same with PSO. It's just that because it's multiplayer some people get bothered by it.

So in other words SEGA tried to appease everyone which is a bit ambitious since. It is impossible to totally please everyone...

Цитата допису Miraglyth:

Цитата допису Reia:

If you are a PSO veteran you will find an issue with PSO2 aesthethics.

It's nice to cross paths with a fellow series veteran. For having played 20 years ago you must have played one of the classic series games as Online released in 2001 in the west.

Цитата допису Reia:

PSO2 is a completely different game focused on colorful and TV japanese anime style themes

This is nothing new for the series. I would recommend looking at the in-game character portraits in both Phantasy Star II[fantasyanime.com] (1989) and Phantasy Star IV[fantasyanime.com] (1993).

Online may have diverged a little by having a reduced anime stylising, but that doesn't mean Online 2 introduced something that wasn't there before. That'd be like saying people would have an issue with Myau as a new creature when musk cats' place in the series is older than Sonic.

I did start in 2000 even when I was 12, ever since I was 8 my nation would sell JP versions since the famicon/NES (We had a dendy like thing that could insert both NES and Famicon catdriges) too and I was brave enough to play them even if I didn't understand japanese. A game is still a game and it was kinda fun for me to figure out how to play it even if I couldn't read.

Yes, Phantasy Star was always anime, originally the project was more original before phantasy star was added to the mix, Sakai made most of the designs and just readapted them to Phantasy Star vibe. Hence the tone down on anime looks. Thou it isn't an issue of the game being dark but rather too dark for SONIC TEAM's taste back then to be more specific.

Цитата допису AnonTwo:

I mean...the easy explanation is "sex sells" and that the atmosphere is different because everyone around you buys half-naked/practically naked gear rather than the more PSO-like gear.

There's technically dark stuff in the game still, like the experimentations, fellow ARK members being corrupted (and being a fairly known possibility).

Hell even in the anime they can't go a single episode without someone dying. Several of which are fairly gory....

If you can find a place to stand away from the lobby, and put on your base gear, you could put PSO1 and PSO2 side by side and they would aesthetically look the same.

As for PSO2 unlike other series from my perspective is that I think one big issue the narrative of PSO2's gameplay it has with story is that yes it has the same horror elements but its a whole bunch of SHOW DON'T TELL problem! (A general critic term when many elements are just displayed throught conversation rather than actually let the spectator see it firsthand to get a better feel of what they want to express you mostly becuase they are too lazy to make that scene but wanted to let you know it's a fact in the lore) While it is true most elements happen they were less visually shown, in PSO we had it in the term of single player sidequests which we could see some of this horror happen in the funny blend of optional quests that some were funny, others depressing, dramatic or outright spooky. Meanwhile in PSO2 many of the horrors are not visually shown in the game, they are told via casual conversation with your fellow ARKS members either in the lobbies or on those little chatter plates you find when doing ARKS missions. Gladly an anime released that retells the events of EP1 and 3 and decided to fix that issue, you can see first handed the horrors they explain.

As for the "sex sells" stuff I think its only one part of the appeasing the japanese otaku masses, we got idols, singing, anime tropes everywhere of all kinds of genre, shojo, mecha, shonen, sentai (shows kinda like power rangers), japanese folklore romanticized (a samurai class that seems out of place as well as a whole planet about ancient japan), isekai, a whole side anime that puts a whole bunch of anime tropes blended together, and ON TOP OF ALL, collabs! Using already copyrighted IPs of other beloved and existent japanese shows, animes and movies. Fanservice is only one of the bunch of their selling markets.

[MechaDeka]

Цитата допису Reia:

I've been playing PSO since I was 12 and now I am 32 years old. The game combines a bit of dark space fantasy with cyberpunk blade runner .

My favorite part of Blade Runner is all the purple haired space elves and lightsaber guys with neon Tron suits and spiky anime hair.

[Ikagura]

Цитата допису MechaDeka:

Цитата допису Reia:

I've been playing PSO since I was 12 and now I am 32 years old. The game combines a bit of dark space fantasy with cyberpunk blade runner .

My favorite part of Blade Runner is all the purple haired space elves and lightsaber guys with neon Tron suits and spiky anime hair.

I think he was refering to the Casts which were basically androids like replicants. Or the fact that Ragol is an off world colony while Earth was almost ruined (like Coral in PSO).

Well it sells much more in the west, look at Diablo for example, Diablo 3 was massively critisized for using more colorful pallets and Diablo doesn't look goatish demonic enough in that game and it's less terrifying.

I should've precized Japanese Dark Fantasy like Berserk.

[MechaDeka]

Цитата допису Ikagura:

I think he was refering to the Casts which were basically androids like replicants.

Show me a single Blade Runner replicant that looks anything like Elenor.

[Reia]

Цитата допису MechaDeka:

Цитата допису Ikagura:

I think he was refering to the Casts which were basically androids like replicants.

Show me a single Blade Runner replicant that looks anything like Elenor.

There is indeed a lot of blade runner inspiration like some of the outfits, some of the minor characters, the whole Pioneer 2 is taken akin to the visuals of blade runner with the flying cars, dark toned dystopian neon urban zones and a bit of punk culture blended with the inhabitants. HUnewearls like Sue wear tight stripper like punkish black leather outfits. Of course they also put a bunch more of cyberpunk stuff from other shows but it shows many things were taken by Blade runner by inspiration. And the whole lore fact that stepping outside of the city to the wilderness is extremely dangerous due to the ravenous mutated wildlife that exist on the planet.

[Curious Mando]

Цитата допису AnonTwo:

I mean...the easy explanation is "sex sells" and that the atmosphere is different because everyone around you buys half-naked/practically naked gear rather than the more PSO-like gear.

There's technically dark stuff in the game still, like the experimentations, fellow ARK members being corrupted (and being a fairly known possibility).

Hell even in the anime they can't go a single episode without someone dying. Several of which are fairly gory....

If you can find a place to stand away from the lobby, and put on your base gear, you could put PSO1 and PSO2 side by side and they would aesthetically look the same.

the anime wasnt that dark?

[MechaDeka]

Цитата допису Reia:

Цитата допису MechaDeka:

Show me a single Blade Runner replicant that looks anything like Elenor.

There is indeed a lot of blade runner inspiration like some of the outfits, some of the minor characters, the whole Pioneer 2 is taken akin to the visuals of blade runner with the flying cars, dark toned dystopian neon urban zones and a bit of punk culture blended with the inhabitants. HUnewearls like Sue wear tight stripper like punkish black leather outfits. Of course they also put a bunch more of cyberpunk stuff from other shows but it shows many things were taken by Blade runner by inspiration.

"Blade Runner invented cities with neon lights at night, even if they don't actually look anything like the one in Blade Runner."

[Reia]

Цитата допису Curious Mando:

Цитата допису AnonTwo:

I mean...the easy explanation is "sex sells" and that the atmosphere is different because everyone around you buys half-naked/practically naked gear rather than the more PSO-like gear.

There's technically dark stuff in the game still, like the experimentations, fellow ARK members being corrupted (and being a fairly known possibility).

Hell even in the anime they can't go a single episode without someone dying. Several of which are fairly gory....

If you can find a place to stand away from the lobby, and put on your base gear, you could put PSO1 and PSO2 side by side and they would aesthetically look the same.

the anime wasnt that dark?

Maybe you're confusing shows, PSO2 had two animes that one released before EP4 and one after EP5.

PHANTASY STAR ONLINE 2 THE ANIMATION is possibly the one you refer. Which is the one I mentioned has all the anime tropes from slice of life school, shonen, mecha, etc.

PHANTASY STAR ONLINE 2 EPISODE ORACLE is the second anime to retell the events of EP1 to 3, this is a much more superior anime if you're a PSO2 Fan, and it features dark themes and a bit of mutilation and graphic violence in the first episodes. The whole EP1 section was great but they rushed it on the EP2 and 3 sections badly.

Цитата допису MechaDeka:

Цитата допису Reia:

There is indeed a lot of blade runner inspiration like some of the outfits, some of the minor characters, the whole Pioneer 2 is taken akin to the visuals of blade runner with the flying cars, dark toned dystopian neon urban zones and a bit of punk culture blended with the inhabitants. HUnewearls like Sue wear tight stripper like punkish black leather outfits. Of course they also put a bunch more of cyberpunk stuff from other shows but it shows many things were taken by Blade runner by inspiration.

"Blade Runner invented cities with neon lights at night, even if they don't actually look anything like the one in Blade Runner."

Well, I can see you're very hardcore fan of blade runner so I understand your outburst. But keep in mind that SONIC TEAM is still a colorful and cheerful developer team, of course they would put a lot of their touch to the game. It is not an loyal reference but rather took inspiration from many things, just like also said regarding replicants, short spanned geneticly made humans, and the whole dystopian coral thing as Ikaruga mentioned.

[Ikagura]

Цитата допису MechaDeka:

Цитата допису Ikagura:

I think he was refering to the Casts which were basically androids like replicants.

Show me a single Blade Runner replicant that looks anything like Elenor.

Elenor is just the default Racaseal but there are more human-like skins for her.

Anyway this isn't just by look but also how Casts are now independant from humans.

Seek My Master was one of the best single player quest with Shino.


Blade Runner (and cyberpunk in general) isn't just about neon city at night during rain but also about humanity quitting the Earth and artificial humans gaining humanity (seen with Rachel).

Also Pioneer 2's principal Tyrell is probably a reference to the CEO of Tyrell Corp.

[FreakEr]

I love PSO and I also love PSO2.

[俄]

I liked the old style and the new one. If you look at concept art for the characters of PSO for gamecube you will find it was anime even back then.
I'd rather play the japanese anime style than a Fallout version of PSO for western players who only want to play post apocalyptic "Dark" games with bald men as protagonists

[Reia]

Цитата допису wiregrind:

I liked the old style and the new one. If you look at concept art for the characters of PSO for gamecube you will find it was anime even back then.
I'd rather play the japanese anime style than a Fallout version of PSO for western players who only want to play post apocalyptic "Dark" games with bald men as protagonists

I always thought of that myself when I play PSO in EN versions, given there is a huge bunch of characters looking like that by the EN players, makes me think it's kinda how they see this games in their eyes sometimes when I try to think out.

It is very anime indeed, after all it was made to appease the japanese. The whole hit hard on the west thing took them by surprise actually. They weren't expecting the game to be big globally.

My biggest concern about the whole future and NEW GENESIS is microsoft however, the one who funds most to have servers in the west and also participated in the funding of NG. Because of their usual mentality of wanting to make this game as a way to dethrone WoW, there is also other possible candidates like FF14 to take the spot. I hope they understand PSO will always be a niche game and if you want to make it wide audience you have to give it a treatment like Monster Hunter World did to the franchise which removed many of it's uniqueness throught the streamlining for westerners proces and also remove anime style to it in favor of realistic looking fleshed human characters to the point that if they don't see it working they will abandon it all together. But I hope that's not the case with how Xenoblade X looks NG has, I think they are more interested in grabbing niches from here and there and keep them as paying customers tthan grabbing the wide audience and quit when they don't take bait.