Boss Rush needs some rebalancing

[Broso]

I understand that it's supposed to be a challenge but it really plays nothing like the main game bosses.

I've spent like 20 minutes on the second phase of the final boss now, turtling with the knight because I take too much damage and deal too little, also stuff flying around everywhere.

At least the final boss needs some rebalancing. I'd say it was manageable until then but there it goes completely out of the window. I also only managed it because I picked the Blood Chalice.

Out of curiosity, did you test this mode and if so, what was the % of people actually clearing it?

[Pleont]

Boss Rush mode has made me hate the 2nd phase of the 2nd boss, it has too much HP in that form, making every run that reaches the 3rd boss into a walk of shame.

Is there a reason Magic Block exists in the Boss Rush item pool? Is it simply a sadistic trap or have I missed some hidden meta where that thing will quickly demolish the 2nd boss onward for 5 HP (1 HP after patch)? Like if it caused the 3rd boss to choke on it and die during her blackhole attack, that would be worth the HP sacrifice.

I would also say the same thing about the Cape; the only place that would probably be remotely useful is the final boss, but between that and Banish, Magic Sword, Claw, and Blood Chalice, that thing only exists to dilute the pool of useful items. If it had an extra property like the ability to phase through (evade) the enemy's magical and lightning attacks while you're descending, then I could understand the Cape existing.

After finally getting a good run where I got the Magic Sword, Banish, and Blood Chalice, I almost defeated the 4th boss until Arias did some combination of attacking the boss and its red platforms, or something, that knocked him from the left side of the arena all the way to the out-of-bounds area to the right of arena, thus soft-locking the game. This has demoralised me from wanting to try again.

[Matt Kap (LABS)]

We will be adding some candles and extra orbs for the boss rush in a patch- but maybe we'll remove some items from the pool as well!

[Alpharius]

I agree, right now Boss Rush mode blows. Boss 2 needs reworking, phase 2 is absolute tedium when you have no stats. Repetitive animations. If you've played these modes, you know the quicker you get to the fight, the better. I also think you just start out too weak. Maybe give some souls and an item to start.

Main game is great, this is obviously an afterthought.

[peacesquid]

I just started this after 100%ing the main mode. Bloody hell. It's a bit tough isn't it? Seems unnecessarily unenjoyable. Who wants to face these guys with 30HP to start?

[peacesquid]

It'd be nice if I knew what the items were between rounds. I ended up going into the second boss battle with that stupid mace upgrade. No use at all.

[Broso]

Originally posted by peacesquid:

It'd be nice if I knew what the items were between rounds. I ended up going into the second boss battle with that stupid mace upgrade. No use at all.

This is a good point. There really should only be items in the pool that actually have a use.

[TreasureCat]

I beat it after about ten highly frustrating attempts that all wiped at boss 2 or 3 and made the whole mode seem like it was hopeless. This is on Switch, so in version, idk, 1.0.4? We don't have functional Mercy or marked Epimetheus map markers over here yet, if that's any indication.

I eventually decided that there was no point in leveling anybody but Algus and Arias because only those two could achieve the damage output necessary to get through the fights. This meant no access to Kyuli's range, which helps a lot for the last couple fights, but her damage output was just too low to be worth it.

Like others have said, Blood Chalice was the most important pickup, and I got it after the first boss. I also broke the mask for double orbs (which I'd have done regardless, but the Chalice makes it a no brainer). After the second boss, I got the orb doubling necklace. I think the only better scenario would be getting the Necklace of Sol first and the Chalice second.

I put every orb I got for the entire run into either Algus stats or HP upgrades, maxing attack speed by the end of boss 2 (Volantis) and distributing most of the rest by cost between Atk and Def. I bought about 15 HP total. I used Algus exclusively at all times, except to wall jump during the boss 4 (Gemini) fight when it does the electric floor attack (and during the first boss, where Arias does good work).

The remaining two upgrades were Banish (after boss 3, Solaria) and then Monster Ball (after Gemini), which were both critical. I don't know what I'd have done against Gemini's summoned ghost without Banish, and Monster Ball basically doubles Algus's damage, which was pretty high between max atk speed and about 16 atk going into the Black Knight/Blackheart Medusa fight. But no Arias dash or reflect, no Kyuli claw, and no Cape (which actually would have been a godsend in the Blackheart Medusa fight).

All the fights were extra slow because of lots of stutter stepping or patiently standing still whenever possible to get the Chalice working and keep my health up. Fighting Solaria, the Black Knight, and Blackheart Medusa all looked like I was going to lose and brought me within one hit of dying several times. Blackheart Medusa especially was *super* slow because of how much time I spent standing on the floor to recover HP while also dodging the various orb attacks. It was basically about attrition.

It's hard for me to imagine winning without picking up the Chalice in the first two bosses and a heavy emphasis on either Algus or Arias using the Mirror Blade to compensate for his lack of range at certain parts. People talk about the claw being an important upgrade, but I don't really see it. I'm curious was people are using it for. I'm sure climbing the wall during Solaria and Blackheart Medusa is a luxury, but navigating the platforms works about as well and lets you take one of other powerful upgrades instead. Maybe I'm missing something.

I really like the idea of this mode randomizing items, but the party stats are too low right now and the useless items need to come out of the pool. It would be interesting to see an option for more orbs as a consistently available alternative to taking an upgrade (this is basically what the Amulet of Sol offers when it comes up), like if somehow doubling your current souls or taking a second mask doubler (but without damaging the player) were also options. There also needs to be some kind of floor or something on the party's stats because right now if you're investing in more than one character you're almost guaranteeing the later fights will be grindingly slow for a lack of damage output. I do think the bones of this mode are good, but the balance needs tuning and skippable animations have to be implemented for the sake of qualify of life.

I think I'm going to spend some time trying to do this with an emphasis on Kyuli to see if I'm selling her short, but I think it's going to come down to a lot of very long fights where you also need to be practically perfect with your dodging.

[Pleont]

Originally posted by TreasureCat:

People talk about the claw being an important upgrade, but I don't really see it. I'm curious was people are using it for.

You can use the Claw to easily defeat the Black Knight with zero damage. i find him to be especially hard to deal with while playing as Arias, so having it turn a run that may have ended in failure due to lack of reaction speed into one that ended in 24 minutes from playing it safe was fortunate; there was no way I could've consistently practised the Black Knight as Arias to eventually get good enough.

Originally posted by TreasureCat:

I think I'm going to spend some time trying to do this with an emphasis on Kyuli to see if I'm selling her short, but I think it's going to come down to a lot of very long fights where you also need to be practically perfect with your dodging.

When I did Boss Rush, there weren't any videos online. But when I checked over a week ago, there were two videos, and both of them use Kyuli. With the Lunar Bow and Chalice, the players were just face-tanking the 2nd and 3rd boss's hits while Kyuli successfully managed a DPS-chicken race. One of the things they also did that I failed to do on any of my attempts was purchase 'Inner Flame' for some cheap, extra damage.

[Ghaleonx39]

in the end I just gave up and deleted the game. It's way too difficult, especially 2nd and last boss. Plus they 'still' throw items in there that literally have 0 purpose (boreas gauntlet, morning star, etc). I had complaints already about the game itself, but this was a terrible execution.

[kalirion]

Got all the other modes, but Boss Rush Mode is just an exercise in masochism. It needs to either let you choose from all items, or add save points in between bosses, but preferably both.

[Gaxeco]

Originally posted by kalirion:

Got all the other modes, but Boss Rush Mode is just an exercise in masochism. It needs to either let you choose from all items, or add save points in between bosses, but preferably both.

I completed it on my first try, just reset until you get Blood Chalice as a reward in the first boss, dump money on damage/hp and win easy, try to recover hp between enemy attacks

[kalirion]

Originally posted by Gaxeco:

just reset until you get Blood Chalice as a reward in the first boss

Thanks for the advice, but I have a hard time imagining anything more mind numbing than doing this.

[Trunk Muffin]

Originally posted by Matt Kap (LABS):

We will be adding some candles and extra orbs for the boss rush in a patch- but maybe we'll remove some items from the pool as well!

Any day now, right?