Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
Don't worry - people have you covered on the complaining front on the game's Discord.
Think it just makes more sense to a new player then to explain why 2 teams with similar players/skills can have some variance on TV cost because 1 randomed and another paid full price on SPP and got also a higher TV cost.
At the same time I can relate to frustration of those who've invested dozens of hours into grind for most efficient team builds this season - as it was the rules of the game at the start of it. They definitely shouldn't be dropping this change mid-seasson, it could wait till the next one, that never was an urgent issue.
For me personally, it's seems ok. I don't grind, and mostly used the random skills to quickly get a few players fairly skilled, as I don't play that much so earning SPPs often a problem.
New players aren't going to be noting any sort of serious difference between two teams beyond the raw TV value regardless. I don't think the basic system is difficult for new people to understand - pay less to get a random skill, or more to get a chosen skill, and the costs are reflected in your team value.
Experienced players are very likely to notice when the game diverges from the official ruleset.
Starting with CRP they absolutely have had unlimited play environments in mind while working on the ruleset, or so they've claimed. In BB2016 they introduced redrafting as a mechanic, which is very much aimed at long-term play rather than one-off seasons. Redrafting is an established rule from the actual rulebook.
Random skills potentially make TV less of an accurate measure of a team's mechanical strength... but over a decade of statistical analyses has very much shown that TV has never been a particularly accurate measure to begin with. It's like changing the zodiac signs because you feel the inclusion of a capricorn, which doesn't really exist, makes astrology less predictive... it wasn't predictive to begin with, so it'd just be messing to mess.
Given that it won't improve things by any measurable metric, there's really no reason to court the player backlash by arbitrarily changing the rules. That's just my two cents worth, of course.
In top of "infinite money" , it's very easy to target skill that you want for less TV making your team more efficient than team that can hardly cheat TV.
Like i love lizardmen but what i did see along my first grind is that i cannot play fair with it because i was getting destroy against team that have similar TV to me but cheat TV like crazy .
Just look the ratio between a team that does cheat TV and one that doesn't .
Like for example i want a double for skink , skink in regular double cost would be 40k against a chaos who cheated all his beastmen with random generic skill , he has like 10k cost which is 4 skill against 1 and it's very easy to adapte to what you want against what was bloodbowl 2 which was more a ratio of 3 general against 2 double .
So i started cheating like a maniac with lizardmen and my saurus and how surprise it did work way better but it just did make you did more frustrating to grind with.
Now what will do random is easier acess to double ability for the same cost which imo is fair , you just get it quicker.
When you look at master cheating TV , dwarf are an easier example of that , they get everything from the start and can cheat TV so easily than most low TV team cannot compet with them , you get barely block when they get like 4 guard or mighty blow stuff.
So im ok with what they did. Random skill cheat TV was something i was hightly disliking but now it's more fair , that also gonna make double more expensive which will make you think which piece you really want.
Also , it gonna refuce the stupid amount of foul player i see across the ladder , unless you have easy acess to both agi and general , you will no longer full face like 2 to 3 fooler and more 1 .
Someone shouldn't be rewarded because they take the 3 SPP risk to random their first skill and get lucky, now the team has -10k TV until they die/MNG is ridiculous. Now imagine doing this for 5, 7, even 10 players... now you get a free reroll, a free apo, some assistant coaches... Yes top tier players can overlook the <1% of games these actually effect, but if you are learning the game just the perception that randoming skills can impact your game is enough to take it out of the ladder.
IF Cyanide wanted an accurate level of skill, the ladder would literally be locked at a TV that you draft around. You wouldn't level players, you wouldn't have a team that grows, anytime you do something to give a player an increase in TV means you must take that TV out somewhere else. You wouldn't have apothecaries, because you can just rehire a player (or journeyman that player until the end of time) You know when you queue up, your 1.2M Elven Union team, is going up against a 1.2M Underlord team. No math, no inducements, just straight up blood bowl.
Maybe I'm wrong, this isn't fundamentally changing Blood Bowl here, this is the admin of a league (in this case Cyanide) tweaking rules to find a format that creates a healthy ladder environment. The fact something as simple as "Outside of 1/2 SPP cost, should randoming impact TV?" is enough to fracture a community of players willing to play an extremely niche game... just continues the doomsday discussion from day 1 that Blood Bowl 3 isn't worth a new players time. Give it 30 days, let it play out... maybe it gets reverted, maybe its a bandaid for something season 3 or 4 can fix.
yeah this is also a reason why cheating TV was so busted , i was just feeling crippled because in order to compet , i needed to cheat TV like a maniac even if that wasn't efficient.
When you face multiple random skill + reroll , it become really hard to compet.
I was just feeling that people wanted to have the less amount of TV as possible getting stupid result , always trying to squish more to get even more advantage , artemis black dwarf was a perfect example of that.
Well, in top [sic] of the fact that its not easy to get the skill you want with the random system without playing an extremely high number of games all of which the players in question need to survive, we don't see such teams at the top of the rankings... meaning this supposed problem is entirely theoretical, existing primarily in the imagination of folks like you.
Sure. Go find me 5 actual examples of teams that are built around carefully crafted players that have a slew of very specific, randomly obtained skills on multiple players that are allowing the team to succeed beyond what your supposed "non cheat" teams can.
What's the team name so we can look at your rankings using this surprisingly easy to farm "cheat TV" team?
Boy are you in for a surprise if you think that min/maxed kill teams in Blood Bowl only came about with the introduction of random skill picks. Nothing will change in that respect.
That's a good joke. If Cyanide wanted to "reduce the amount of variables in a matchmaking system" they'd probably stop using SR which is a bunch of superfluous variables they deliberately added into matchmaking with BB3.
Removing something that required people play a large number of games to leverage is certainly not going to improve the number of people playing at any given time, and it certainly wasn't random skill picks that caused the population to spiral into the toilet.
That wouldn't accomplish what you think it would because the rosters themselves are not equal at the same TV. However, if Cyanide didn't imagine they were finding an actual accurate level of coaching skill they wouldn't be changing the random skill TV because it wouldn't matter. They think this improves the balance, but there's zero evidence that it will improve anything and it certainly isn't improving player relations.
You are.
It is diverging from the tabletop rules, the adherence to being something Cyanide itself has used as an excuse not to change aspects of the game that players have called for and found to be difficult to deal with, like wizard use or aspects of player activation.
Without any metric that shows that random skills are an actual threat to the health of the ladder environment there's no way to say that changing it has improved the health of that environment. That's why I ask people for concrete examples of teams that have successfully leveraged this and are succeeding in the open ladder because of it rather than their hand-waved theoretical situations.
I was just not having it and playing bloodbowl 2 instead.
My previous team still has 2000 sr and i was cheating lucky skill with saurus and krox (until he die but that another story)
Random skill aren't that "random" when you can craft around it.
You can try to get strenght , get mightyblow or guard , get stand firm or juggernaut and put frenzy into it.
Same for regular generic skill , get sure hand , ball career , can get a good kicker , a fend , a dauntless dude if needed , wrestle , block , always usefull or tackle , of course dirty player.
Depending on your player , you really have plenty of option , in general you random the first skill and buil around it and if you can't see , just check the top 100 to see how problematic this is.
With infinite money , you just fire the player and get a new one and try again if you fail.
And no people will play less fouler , people always want to play the most efficient as possible so always try to manipulate TV , more foul player mean more TV , well at least you still gonna see maybe multiple foul player but less dirty/sneaky git.