Anti-cheat

[mrsir]

Just curious about how BB3 prevents cheating. I'm not actually suggesting anyone is cheating, and I understand that bad rolls are bad rolls. Sometimes however it does feel like the other player can do nothing wrong.

For example, my last opponent rolled constant defender down dice with single dice roll after single dice roll, and every single player they hit ended up stunned. They even carried out two successful long passes with agi3 level 1 characters and even scored with an ogre after successfully rerolling despite loner on two seperate occasions in two turns, and picked up the ball successfully twice with the ogre with agi 5. Meanwhile double roll after double roll for my team were double skulls, my agi 3 characters couldn't even pick up the ball and so on.

It just made me curious if it is actually possible to cheat in this game or if this was just insane bad luck on my part.

[grumplekins]

It's impossible to judge based on your account. You could be terrible at the game and suffering from selective memory. You could also have had an unusually unlucky game. Both of those things certainly happen, but I've never heard of anyone cheating.

[mrsir]

Originally posted by grumplekins:

It's impossible to judge based on your account. You could be terrible at the game and suffering from selective memory. You could also have had an unusually unlucky game. Both of those things certainly happen, but I've never heard of anyone cheating.

Every single block and blitz I did with 2 dice, pretty much all of theirs were done with 1 dice. This really isn't a case of playing badly lol. As for selective memory, it literally happened minutes before I posted and not one single play went right the whole game, and I did not even attempt risky plays. They did multiple risky plays and all of them worked. I'm talking 5 or 6 very risky plays with poor chances of success. I've won enough games to know I am not so bad as to lose 3-0 against a fresh human team with zero skillls without extreme bad luck.

I'm not saying anyone was cheating. I was probably really unlucky in a game where nothing went right. It happens. It just got me thinking and I'm curious as to if it is possible to cheat and what safe guards Cyanide has in place to prevent it.

[grumplekins]

Originally posted by mrsir:

Originally posted by grumplekins:

It's impossible to judge based on your account. You could be terrible at the game and suffering from selective memory. You could also have had an unusually unlucky game. Both of those things certainly happen, but I've never heard of anyone cheating.

Every single block and blitz I did with 2 dice, pretty much all of theirs were done with 1 dice. This really isn't a case of playing badly lol. As for selective memory, it literally happened minutes before I posted and not one single play went right the whole game, and I did not even attempt risky plays. They did multiple risky plays and all of them worked. I'm talking 5 or 6 very risky plays with poor chances of success. I've won enough games to know I am not so bad as to lose 3-0 against a fresh human team with zero skillls without extreme bad luck.

I'm not saying anyone was cheating. I was probably really unlucky in a game where nothing went right. It happens. It just got me thinking and I'm curious as to if it is possible to cheat and what safe guards Cyanide has in place to prevent it.

The only cheating rumour I ever heard was at one point the story went somebody had access to the randomiser ahead of time and could predict rolls. But as far as I can recall this was never proven to have happened.

As for selective memory and other things - sometimes the right play is the risky one. When it then goes on to work and is a 1/3 we define it as "lucky" - we rarely take note of the times the opponent falls flat on their face on a desperation play. It is generally difficult to assess the kind of story you are telling here without having seen the game. But yeah, sometimes luck decides games.

[VoodooMike]

Originally posted by grumplekins:

The only cheating rumour I ever heard was at one point the story went somebody had access to the randomiser ahead of time and could predict rolls. But as far as I can recall this was never proven to have happened.

BB1 matches were done strictly P2P, without the server handling anything, so both sides had local copies of the RNG state, so it was absolutely possible to read that state to produce the future rolls before they came up.

There's never been anything since they moved the RNG to their own servers for online play.

[Lfod]

I had this thought the other day if people can cheat the dice rolls. I assume that everything is done server side and cheating isn't really possible. At times I was thinking I was getting suspiciously unlucky or the opponent was getting suspiciously lucky I can only assume it's not really anybody cheating.

I don't really see a lot of people complaining about it and usually it's pretty well known when people use programs to cheat at games. I wouldn't be shocked if I found out that people found a way to cheat the game but until I see something more obvious I can't really blame how the dice rolls on cheating.

It is funny to see 5 KOed players from the opponent wake up and your one KOed player stay sleeping while they are landing one dice POWs and dodging 4+ a few times. Usually when people create these programs to cheat they want to sell them and that is usually when it becomes obvious that people are buying and using these things. If you can find somebody selling a program to cheat Blood Bowl 3 then I would believe people are cheating.

[mrsir]

Originally posted by Lfod:

I had this thought the other day if people can cheat the dice rolls. I assume that everything is done server side and cheating isn't really possible. At times I was thinking I was getting suspiciously unlucky or the opponent was getting suspiciously lucky I can only assume it's not really anybody cheating.

I don't really see a lot of people complaining about it and usually it's pretty well known when people use programs to cheat at games. I wouldn't be shocked if I found out that people found a way to cheat the game but until I see something more obvious I can't really blame how the dice rolls on cheating.

It is funny to see 5 KOed players from the opponent wake up and your one KOed player stay sleeping while they are landing one dice POWs and dodging 4+ a few times. Usually when people create these programs to cheat they want to sell them and that is usually when it becomes obvious that people are buying and using these things. If you can find somebody selling a program to cheat Blood Bowl 3 then I would believe people are cheating.

I don't believe anyone is cheating. I was just curious as to if it was possible to cheat in this game.

[Eyesight]

Originally posted by mrsir:

Originally posted by Lfod:

I had this thought the other day if people can cheat the dice rolls. I assume that everything is done server side and cheating isn't really possible. At times I was thinking I was getting suspiciously unlucky or the opponent was getting suspiciously lucky I can only assume it's not really anybody cheating.

I don't really see a lot of people complaining about it and usually it's pretty well known when people use programs to cheat at games. I wouldn't be shocked if I found out that people found a way to cheat the game but until I see something more obvious I can't really blame how the dice rolls on cheating.

It is funny to see 5 KOed players from the opponent wake up and your one KOed player stay sleeping while they are landing one dice POWs and dodging 4+ a few times. Usually when people create these programs to cheat they want to sell them and that is usually when it becomes obvious that people are buying and using these things. If you can find somebody selling a program to cheat Blood Bowl 3 then I would believe people are cheating.

I don't believe anyone is cheating. I was just curious as to if it was possible to cheat in this game.

You don't know , it's possible at some point that we get a cheat that allow you to see log dice but in that case , your opponent would do completely illogical action and that will be spotted .

[brynjar]

First thing first. This is not yatzeeh, if someone don't grasp how the assist mechanism works, then everything looks like cheating. If you wanna knock someone down fx you need to beat their strength. And that can be a very calculated dice roll. Assists make and break the dice rolls. Picking up the ball fx next to a player is insanely hard for a brawler, but not for a high agility player. Cause their agi scores affect the roll.

[brynjar]

^I know that was VERY basic i can see that, lol but you can make the rolls much better in your favor.

[mrsir]

Originally posted by brynjar:

First thing first. This is not yatzeeh, if someone don't grasp how the assist mechanism works, then everything looks like cheating. If you wanna knock someone down fx you need to beat their strength. And that can be a very calculated dice roll. Assists make and break the dice rolls. Picking up the ball fx next to a player is insanely hard for a brawler, but not for a high agility player. Cause their agi scores affect the roll.

Did you read my posts? None of this remotely fits anything I said. All my rolls were double dice because I know how the game works, I've been playing it since around 1989/90. Pretty much all of theirs were single dice because they were not using assists or stopping my assists.

Again, I don't think they were cheating. I understand the game and I understand I got unlucky. I was just curious if it was possible to cheat.

[VoodooMike]

Originally posted by mrsir:

I was just curious if it was possible to cheat.

The objective answer is "we don't know". Cyanide says it isn't, and that dice rolls are generated on the server side. In theory, assuming they implemented everything in a reasonable way, that should preclude any dice changing or dice prediction on the user side.

BB3 has no replay files or game-created match logs, unlike BB1 and BB2. Because of this there is no good way to do statistical analysis of match data to examine the rolls to look for any sort of inconsistency. People can manually write down rolls, but people have claimed to have done so in the past to support their completely false assertions about cheating and RNG bias, so those source that cannot be independently verified are always suspect.

Even when you set up systems properly, there's always the possibility that there are bugs that can be used to corrupt those systems. Eyeballing results is not a serious method for analysis, but Cyanide has been very deliberate in their evading of any sort of analysis of anything they do, which means all we have is their say so on almost every aspect of BB3.

Whether you consider their say so good enough or not... well... that's up to each person individually.

[Ghost from warp]

I had rl bb3 league in which my Blitzer manage to injure 20 players in 10 games while Killing 10 of them.
4 of them in same player's team.

Luck is a strange thing.

Next league I lost half of my team in first game.

[Astrospud]

Upon reading this post, I spent 30 minutes looking for cheats online (to prove a point, not to actively cheat!).
I tried various keywords, like RNG log and for the most part, the only thing that repeatedly came up was BBL3 Trainer.
The trainer program (by the accounts of the distributors) is used to skip AI turns while allowing for 'Mega Turns' (what ever that means), and all data passes integrity checks, whilst only affecting offline play, including the campaign.

So, in a nutshell, there doesn't seem to be an active cheat scene online.
Luck just happens to favour some people.

[MarcosM]

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[MarcosM]

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