Is the Dark Elves Assassin still trash ?

[Ardordor]

Did they reworked him ?

[noirnick]

No, he is a bad as the LRB days.

[Sepul]

He is situational. In a game in which you want to minimize risk, having a risky player is always an issue. Same goes for most passing players, trolls launching goblins, and the like. They are fun to play with and make for the most memorable moments in a match, but they are unreliable.

[WulfByte]

Originally posted by Ardordor:

Did they reworked him ?

Dark Elf Assassin's move allowance was increased from 6 to 7, and their price dropped 5k. However Shadowing skill was also reworked to make it more difficult to achieve. In new rules it uses 1D6 and requires a 6, not 2D6 requiring 7.
More data at https://mordorbihan.fr/en/bloodbowl/team/Dark%20Elves/2020

[TchernoWill]

In BB2020, assassin with dodge is usable, because u are not exposed to turnover with stab, and dodge is a good defensive skill, especially at low TV. With multiple blocks u can have some fun with him. It's harder with the runner. Dump-off need to be activated when ur oppenent begin the blitz, u need pass for a reroll (no reroll during opponent turn), u need too nerves of steel.

[Sepul]

Runners are pieces expected to fulfill a different role (pass 3 and access to pass skills, best passing in DE team and very good for an AG2 piece).

Assassins are mediocre pieces considering your alternatives. Blitzers are more expensive, but are arguably the best players in a DE team (block, ag 2, and 9 armor is very good for a blitzer that also has easy access to dodge).

Then, you have the two Witches, more expensive but way more valuable (and durable, due to dodge), than the assassin. Frenzy, with all its shortcomings, is still much better than stab or shadowing. So are dodge and jump up for and AG2 player.

By the time you have 4 blitzers and 2 witch elves, it is hard to find reason to hire an assassin, as he will not really bring anything new to the team. Of course you can start your team with one, but in my opinion starting with 4 blitzers is a better option (due to their 9 armor and block). Then, for your first hire, you really want a witch.

As said before, assassins are fun but unreliable for their TV. With dodge they get better, but so do all the other pieces, and building one as a catcher is not really worth it (you can do that with any other piece if that is what you want, even a second runner will be better).

[Munga]

Assassins are very unique units that don't always belong on the field. They're not trash, but you must use them properly. Get creative with the skills and you'll find some fun.

[Space]

Better than they were, but still not really worth mostly because your starting 11 is so competitive and your players are expensive.

I will say they're better than runners. Runners are the worst positional now.

[Sepul]

Runners open up the passing game, which is kind of a bad joke for a team that doesn't really have a catcher. Yet, if you build one of your players into a catcher, they open a lot of possibilities.

Not that anybody plays passing in BB2020, but with passing 3 they are a constant threat in the field.

I will take a runner over an assassin for sure, if only because they tend to make your opponent nervous.

[avaririot]

Originally posted by Sepul:

Runners open up the passing game, which is kind of a bad joke for a team that doesn't really have a catcher. Yet, if you build one of your players into a catcher, they open a lot of possibilities.

Not that anybody plays passing in BB2020, but with passing 3 they are a constant threat in the field.

I will take a runner over an assassin for sure, if only because they tend to make your opponent nervous.

I like the runner even more now because Dark elves do get into pinches where they have to be more elfy and pass. You used to do that with whoever rolled a +AG but now you pretty much need to develop a runner for the role.

[mrsir]

I tend to give my assassin a second role. I usually make him a runner too alongside my witches. The three of them tend to handle the kicking, throwing, running and catching whilst the blitzers clear a path and the linesman fend off their big hitters. The shadowing has helped with tripping a ball carrier but is very hit and miss. The stab has got me out of some sticky situations but it cannot be relied upon, hence why I team him up with the witches.

[Sepul]

Originally posted by avaririot:

Originally posted by Sepul:

Runners open up the passing game, which is kind of a bad joke for a team that doesn't really have a catcher. Yet, if you build one of your players into a catcher, they open a lot of possibilities.

Not that anybody plays passing in BB2020, but with passing 3 they are a constant threat in the field.

I will take a runner over an assassin for sure, if only because they tend to make your opponent nervous.

I like the runner even more now because Dark elves do get into pinches where they have to be more elfy and pass. You used to do that with whoever rolled a +AG but now you pretty much need to develop a runner for the role.

That's the thing, a piece with PA3 is always a threat in a team made of AG2 players. Pick catch with other piece and the threat suddenly becomes very serious. No one, not even an elven team, can rely only on playing a passing game, but having the option forces your opponent to be very careful with his positioning.

[Strayed]

An assassin is situational. Also, your Assassin shouldn't really be using your blitz's neither -they're not tough enough and their tricks aren't things that can be used for blitzing. An assassin is a control player.

You need to focus on using either shadowing or stabbing. You won't be able to do both effectively. Maybe you could have one of each... but honestly, you need meatshield facetanking linesman more.

Shadowing can be useful to exert control on low AG team, but you need to get higher AG since the shadowing skill has been reduced from getting a 7 on 2D6 to a 6 on 1D6... not an issue if you can get another point on AG

Stabbing is ok against low AV players -usually human catchers or wood elves.... but there's no tree huggers at the moment

Basically, an Assassin is an expensive Linesman in my view. It loses one point in passing and gains one in MA

You'll basically be building an Assassin similar to a Linesman in any case: Blodge for survival (in case stab fails) and multiple block to use stab on two targets or Wackle, diving tackle and pass block to maximise shadowing and exerting control on ball carriers/catchers

*edit:
now with how BB3 does level ups, you could also consider taking Grab and Arm Bar

[Sepul]

Originally posted by Strayed:

An assassin is situational. Also, your Assassin shouldn't really be using your blitz's neither -they're not tough enough and their tricks aren't things that can be used for blitzing. An assassin is a control player.

You need to focus on using either shadowing or stabbing. You won't be able to do both effectively. Maybe you could have one of each... but honestly, you need meatshield facetanking linesman more.

Shadowing can be useful to exert control on low AG team, but you need to get higher AG since the shadowing skill has been reduced from getting a 7 on 2D6 to a 6 on 1D6... not an issue if you can get another point on AG

Stabbing is ok against low AV players -usually human catchers or wood elves.... but there's no tree huggers at the moment

Basically, an Assassin is an expensive Linesman in my view. It loses one point in passing and gains one in MA

You'll basically be building an Assassin similar to a Linesman in any case: Blodge for survival (in case stab fails) and multiple block to use stab on two targets or Wackle with pass block to maximise shadowing and exerting control on ball carriers/catchers

You have some stats wrong. Assassins have PA5, not 4. Also, Linemans have AV 9, while Assassins have 8. This may seem like a small thing, but that makes Assassins very weak. In fact, without dodge and block, it is one of the weakest pieces in the game, and one of the reasons I will never take it in an experienced team (your chances to kiss goodbye to those 85k are extremely high).

But yeah, I agree, they are expensive lineman. Shadowing is worst now, although it continues to work against low movement opponents (yet again, you usually want to follow fast players). Stab is interesting, but very situational. It was a mediocre skill before and continues to be so. Overall it is not a bad player, but the thing is that your other options are better.

[Strayed]

Originally posted by Sepul:

You have some stats wrong. Assassins have PA5, not 4. Also, Linemans have AV 9, while Assassins have 8. This may seem like a small thing, but that makes Assassins very weak. In fact, without dodge and block, it is one of the weakest pieces in the game, and one of the reasons I will never take it in an experienced team (your chances to kiss goodbye to those 85k are extremely high).

But yeah, I agree, they are expensive lineman. Shadowing is worst now, although it continues to work against low movement opponents (yet again, you usually want to follow fast players). Stab is interesting, but very situational. It was a mediocre skill before and continues to be so. Overall it is not a bad player, but the thing is that your other options are better.

Yes, sorry still adjusting to the new rules

Agreed, other players can do the job better than an Assassin.

Honestly, shadowing in my opinion is the better trick for the Assassin. I am going to test the new leveling system to see if increasing MA makes shadowing any better. Probably not. But I am interested to see.

[Sepul]

Originally posted by Strayed:

Originally posted by Sepul:

You have some stats wrong. Assassins have PA5, not 4. Also, Linemans have AV 9, while Assassins have 8. This may seem like a small thing, but that makes Assassins very weak. In fact, without dodge and block, it is one of the weakest pieces in the game, and one of the reasons I will never take it in an experienced team (your chances to kiss goodbye to those 85k are extremely high).

But yeah, I agree, they are expensive lineman. Shadowing is worst now, although it continues to work against low movement opponents (yet again, you usually want to follow fast players). Stab is interesting, but very situational. It was a mediocre skill before and continues to be so. Overall it is not a bad player, but the thing is that your other options are better.

Yes, sorry still adjusting to the new rules

Agreed, other players can do the job better than an Assassin.

Honestly, shadowing in my opinion is the better trick for the Assassin. I am going to test the new leveling system to see if increasing AG makes shadowing any better. Probably not. But I am interested to see.

Actually you had the PA stat right, I though you were comparing them to runners, but yeah, they lose 1 point in PA compared to lineman.

With the new version, I think the best way to start a DE team is 6Linemen, 4 Blitzer, 1 Runner, and 2 rerolls. Then you have to buy the apothecary and save for the witches. In the long run, there is no place for the assassin considering how expensive are DE teams.