Armor penetration issues

[gilmir]

Just to be clear: I'm currently on my second playthrough of ITR. Also, I don't have any general problems to progress on my current playthrough, so there's definitely no "skill problem".
I played through ITR for the first time a bit over half a year ago.
Since I think it's the best FPS for VR that I know of, I decided to start a second playthrough from scratch.
Beside minor performance problems (I feel that it maybe looked a bit worse half a year ago, but the performance was subjectively better), I have the impression that armored enemies are way harder to "crack".
For example, the most basic Fragments are a real ammo sink, when armored.
I tried several approaches - M4A1 with AP ammo - you need 4-5 hits to kill the mob.
M5 with P+ ammo seems to work a bit better, but still 3-4 hits on average.
Now I bought an FN FAL. According to available data, FMJ should have a penetration value of 97% and 85 damage. So, it should be a guaranteed one-hit on penetration.
Nope. Again, 3-4 hits needed. First three get the "bouncing sound".
Was armor penetration nerfed in some way recently?
I can't understand it otherwise...

[TSRNonya]

Primary question is where are you aiming? Generally speaking headshots are the way to go. Secondly, what difficulty are you playing on? Normal difficulty and aiming for body shots will produce the results you're experiencing especially with AP ammo. The big thing to be aware of is that while AP ammo has a higher armor penetration chance, that comes at the cost of damage done being lower after penetration, if it penetrates. You're on the right track with high caliber, 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 x 54R generally shouldn't have trouble defeating armor. 12g slugs are an excellent budget option but require you to be closer as velocity and range parameters will also affect how effective your shots are. If you have anything further questions, this forum will help with breaking down ammo types and their advantages/disadvantages. https://www.reddit.com/r/intotheradius/comments/tpb5zr/in_depth_sniper_guide_tips/

[gilmir]

As I wrote - I'm on my second playthrough (after finishing the game on normal about half a year ago). I don't remember having this kind of problems on my first playthrough.

As far as I understand how the armor system works (on enemies), armor DOESN'T absorb damage. A bullet can either bounce (doing 0 dmg), or penetrate (and do full damage).
As AP bullets have lower dmg, I tried using FN FAL.
The 7.62x51 should kill any amored enemy on a headshot in 97% of cases with one hit (pen of FMJ on this caliber is supposedly 97%). For me, the last armored Fragment I shot bounced three headshots (with the distinct sound of a deflected bullet) and died on the fourth.
For some reason I feel like the MP5 with P+ bullets works better, although the penetration is supposedly 70%, so it should bounce more (and also kill on first penetration).

[TSRNonya]

Originally posted by gilmir:

As I wrote - I'm on my second playthrough (after finishing the game on normal about half a year ago). I don't remember having this kind of problems on my first playthrough.

As far as I understand how the armor system works (on enemies), armor DOESN'T absorb damage. A bullet can either bounce (doing 0 dmg), or penetrate (and do full damage).
As AP bullets have lower dmg, I tried using FN FAL.
The 7.62x51 should kill any amored enemy on a headshot in 97% of cases with one hit (pen of FMJ on this caliber is supposedly 97%). For me, the last armored Fragment I shot bounced three headshots (with the distinct sound of a deflected bullet) and died on the fourth.
For some reason I feel like the MP5 with P+ bullets works better, although the penetration is supposedly 70%, so it should bounce more (and also kill on first penetration).

Doing some research, as previously mentioned, shotguns work really well against armored enemies as slugs have a 100% penetration chance, the tradeoff is you have to be fairly close to get that. It seems distance plays some part in determining penetration chance. Allegedly hitting in critical areas should ignore armor hence why I mentioned the headshots. May be worth verifying files and doing a reinstall if you haven't already.

[Saedriss]

Originally posted by TheSociableRecluse:

Allegedly hitting in critical areas should ignore armor hence why I mentioned the headshots.

That is a myth, but with some truth behind it.
Melee weapons ignore armor on critical spots (middle-chest for fragment, head for the others)
However bullets will have to pass a penetration check regardless of where it hits.

And finally bullets can still bounce, even with 100% armor penetration, if they hit the target at a shallow enough angle.

[gilmir]

Originally posted by Saedriss:

And finally bullets can still bounce, even with 100% armor penetration, if they hit the target at a shallow enough angle.

Wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the info!
This would mean, though, that it makes more sense to shoot some enemies (especially armored fragments) in the chest, as the head has only a very small area that's not angled (and it's moving, as well), which would mean that their heads have a very high bounce probability.
Anyway, I switched to a Tiger (with an M9 for anything without armor), and it seems to work much better overall.
Will probably go with SCAR for endgame, again. The damage is nearly the same, but only 10 bullets in a mag is a major drawback on the Tiger for me.