Were snipers nerfed?

[Turahk]

I'm trying the prototype Lysander now and oh jeez, rof is 0 and accuracy seems to bet set at -100

I know snipers were really good in EDF4 but damn

[Honorable_D]

As with Wing Diver's Monster Zero, the first "prototype" Lysander is a gimmick weapon and not meant to be used.

The nonprototype version are usable as intended.

But yes actually, a lot of long range weapons were dialed back in EDF 5 compared to 4.

[RobDeLaMorte]

I like the 3 shot burst one the ranger gets that shoots pretty much anywhere within an 8 inch radius of where you aimed. >.>

And the wing diver lightning cast that does about 5 damage per shot and eats 40% of your energy per refill. <.<


The early weapons are pretty pants. Gotta keep trying to see what ones are decent.

[Zephyr]

Sniper rifles in general were greatly nerfed in 5. Anything long range not a strike pretty much was. EDF 5 clearly wants you to go to contact to make the most damage, as the changes to weapons will clearly indicate with close range weapons being king, and damage dropoff past a certain range.

Most enemies have more health too than they had, but in turn, there are overall less of them compared to 4.1

We had a discussion with Vlad last night about that, and he told me overall monsters in general, for the small fry, seems to have around 1000 HP more than their 4.1 counterpart. This means than similar damage weapons have overall less effect. Try to shoot a drone with a sniper in 4.1, usually it's a one shot. In 5, it's a 2 or 3 shots in general.

Problem is, sniper rifles are still overall your best choice to dealing with anything that fly due to homing weapons being grossly inferior most of the case, and firing more slowly. Unless you are an excessively bad shot, in which case, homing may be better for you. There are some exceptions here and there.

[RobDeLaMorte]

Originally posted by Zephyr:

Sniper rifles in general were greatly nerfed in 5. Anything long range not a strike pretty much was. EDF 5 clearly wants you to go to contact to make the most damage, as the changes to weapons will clearly indicate with close range weapons being king, and damage dropoff past a certain range.

Most enemies have more health too than they had, but in turn, there are overall less of them compared to 4.1

We had a discussion with Vlad last night about that, and he told me overall monsters in general, for the small fry, seems to have around 1000 HP more than their 4.1 counterpart. This means than similar damage weapons have overall less effect. Try to shoot a drone with a sniper in 4.1, usually it's a one shot. In 5, it's a 2 or 3 shots in general.

Problem is, sniper rifles are still overall your best choice to dealing with anything that fly due to homing weapons being grossly inferior most of the case, and firing more slowly. Unless you are an excessively bad shot, in which case, homing may be better for you. There are some exceptions here and there.

You've played the game a bit, can you tell me if other classes get any decent long long range gear? I remember it being a HUGE issue for solo Fencer back in 4.1 where some missions I straight up couldn't do just because the only long long range weapon I had was a mortar and it couldn't reach some UFOs. >:o


Also, random thought but Air Raider's limpet guns are actually better long range guns than most of the assault rifles and early game weapons for other classes. Especially the Limpet Gun D, it's a L2 so you can take it anywhere, mine's got 751m range and shoots 7 mines for 65.5 a piece and it isn't even levelled out. It's been carrying me pretty well through early Hard mode.

[Honorable_D]

Did...did you not use the Gallic Heavy Cannons for Fencer in 4.1? Sure they are somewhat tricky to use but they do heavy damage and have very long range.

[RobDeLaMorte]

Originally posted by Honorable_D:

Did...did you not use the Gallic Heavy Cannons for Fencer in 4.1? Sure they are somewhat tricky to use but they do heavy damage and have very long range.

Oh I did but there was one particular city level, it might have been EDF 2025 actually thinking about it :o, but it had UFOs at an insanely high height to the point where even the big ol' long range mortars couldn't reach. I think I ended up having to parkour up a tall building and wangle it for like a half hour before I got it.

[Vℓα∂y]

Range was nerfed to make vehicles seem more appealing as vehicles indeed possess best dps when it comes to long weapons.

Rangers best long range dps comes from
1.Brute's helicopters dauntless guns, which remain the same from 4's version of it but with higher armor meaning it can easily tank some hits before being destroyed, very cost efficient for amount of damage you get from it as it surpasses the amount that the EMC carries.
2. EMC which deals big amount of burst damage with a press of button, can also be exited while firing and ranger can stack any range damage he has with the EMC.
3. Railgun, railgun was nerfed yes, but it still does good amount of damage and you can take extra shots with ur snipers with it between railgun shots.

Having said that, I believe I seen snipers be used more for Frogs, Cosmonauts, anchors, and transport ships although for ships I sometimes prefer one of the ARs for some ships low enough. You shouldn't bring snipers for masses of bugs or even sometimes for drones if your the one that's gonna be dealing with them unless you also bring a shotgun. In any case if your dealing with a lot of different enemy types you can just do shotgun/super acid gun+reverse shooter with vehicle slot that is pretty solid combination for some of stages with hordes of cosmonauts. I mention his acid gun because it has very long range with good dps. It is usable throughout hardest and even inferno.

His snipers on otherhand while not powerful make for very easy to use and good weapons for pulling unaggroed enemies with fast projectiles and good accuracy err when upgraded.

His Mex Emerald, one of his homing missiles is also very good when upgraded provided he has somone or NPC taking attention off him while he fires Mex.

I would like to mention this, imagine if snipers weren't nerfed, think it would lead to most ranger players mostly using his vests and not really considering the vehicles at all which is probably what the developer thought. Snipers for most part work well in offline along with rockets, but unfortunately they scale harshly in multiplayer. Air Raiders limpets were buffed, well his entire kit needed to be buffed with how impressive airstrikes are now in this game, but his limpet snipers ideally deals better dps than lysanders. Fencer was entirely buffed on long range, his cannons match's EDF5 railguns damage, his handcannons are controllable with muzzle stabilizers making them also match cannons dps. Wing Diver is in a weird spot as far as damage goes, while her monster deals less damage than EDF4, it was also made to be more practical with being able to shoot multiple shots and pierce. However her dps is more affected by which core she is using. Overall she does have more utility for long range with the right cores on the right guns.

[RobDeLaMorte]

Originally posted by 🌼Vℓα∂y🌻:

Range was nerfed to make vehicles seem more appealing as vehicles indeed possess best dps when it comes to long weapons.

Rangers best long range dps comes from
1.Brute's helicopters dauntless guns, which remain the same from 4's version of it but with higher armor meaning it can easily tank some hits before being destroyed, very cost efficient for amount of damage you get from it as it surpasses the amount that the EMC carries.
2. EMC which deals big amount of burst damage with a press of button, can also be exited while firing and ranger can stack any range damage he has with the EMC.
3. Railgun, railgun was nerfed yes, but it still does good amount of damage and you can take extra shots with ur snipers with it between railgun shots.

Having said that, I believe I seen snipers be used more for Frogs, Cosmonauts, anchors, and transport ships although for ships I sometimes prefer one of the ARs for some ships low enough. You shouldn't bring snipers for masses of bugs or even sometimes for drones if your the one that's gonna be dealing with them unless you also bring a shotgun. In any case if your dealing with a lot of different enemy types you can just do shotgun/super acid gun+reverse shooter with vehicle slot that is pretty solid combination for some of stages with hordes of cosmonauts. I mention his acid gun because it has very long range with good dps. It is usable throughout hardest and even inferno.

His snipers on otherhand while not powerful make for very easy to use and good weapons for pulling unaggroed enemies with fast projectiles and good accuracy err when upgraded.

His Mex Emerald, one of his homing missiles is also very good when upgraded provided he has somone or NPC taking attention off him while he fires Mex.

I would like to mention this, imagine if snipers weren't nerfed, think it would lead to most ranger players mostly using his vests and not really considering the vehicles at all which is probably what the developer thought. Snipers for most part work well in offline along with rockets, but unfortunately they scale harshly in multiplayer. Air Raiders limpets were buffed, well his entire kit needed to be buffed with how impressive airstrikes are now in this game, but his limpet snipers ideally deals better dps than lysanders. Fencer was entirely buffed on long range, his cannons match's EDF5 railguns damage, his handcannons are controllable with muzzle stabilizers making them also match cannons dps. Wing Diver is in a weird spot as far as damage goes, while her monster deals less damage than EDF4, it was also made to be more practical with being able to shoot multiple shots and pierce. However her dps is more affected by which core she is using. Overall she does have more utility for long range with the right cores on the right guns.

Have to say I've been using sniper weapons to deal with the frogs, the red ones especially are revoltingly obnoxious with both how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fast they can close ground and their shotguns that are undodgeable within a mile and horribly slow you if they even slightly clip you, making it even harder to get away.

I kind of miss the old EDF 2017 days where you could just sit at the start of a level firing like 900 Emerald missiles into the air and watch them home in flawlessly on every enemy at infinite range. xD I guess that isn't considered very sporting these days though.


Also that's a cheeky Touhou that is, don't think I don't know one when I see one.

[BluntProfile]

Snipers aren't "nerfed". it's just that other ranger weapons got an overall upgrade. Also regarding your sniper accuracy being so low, I suggest u farm some weapons if u love that category. That being said, rocket launchers can serve as an alternative if u rly to play the long-range style

[Vℓα∂y]

In EDF4 36 Stringer J2 did 3000 PT and had reload of 3.5 seconds.
In EDF5 34 MR99 Fang 2264 PT with a reload of 5 seconds.

That is a nerf no matter how you look at it. J2 was extremely good in EDF4 usable even in some inferno missions. Lysander F is also nerfed 3394 damage in EDF5 while it was 3800 in EDF4. Now some of other Lysanders were slightly buffed, few snipers are new to ranger so there is no previous game to compare them to. MMF series which is now KFF was slightly buffed. Lysander 2 is removed so there is no good level 40s sniper. All lysanders suffer from not being able to same weapon switch shoot anymore. EDF5 drones have nearly twice amount of health more than there EDF4 counterparts making the weaker rifles unable to one shot them, Type 2 drones can't even be one shot by slightly buffed maxed Lysander Z in 2nd mission you encounter them all the way to end of game when in EDF4 a weaker lysander Z can one shot flying vehicles all throughout entire game even into the dlc missions.

[BluntProfile]

Originally posted by 🌼Vℓα∂y🌻:

In EDF4 36 Stringer J2 did 3000 PT and had reload of 3.5 seconds.
In EDF5 34 MR99 Fang 2264 PT with a reload of 5 seconds.

That is a nerf no matter how you look at it. J2 was extremely good in EDF4 usable even in some inferno missions. Lysander F is also nerfed 3394 damage in EDF5 while it was 3800 in EDF4. Now some of other Lysanders were slightly buffed, few snipers are new to ranger so there is no previous game to compare them to. MMF series which is now KFF was slightly buffed. Lysander 2 is removed so there is no good level 40s sniper. All lysanders suffer from not being able to same weapon switch shoot anymore. EDF5 drones have nearly twice amount of health more than there EDF4 counterparts making the weaker rifles unable to one shot them, Type 2 drones can't even be one shot by slightly buffed maxed Lysander Z in 2nd mission you encounter them all the way to end of game when in EDF4 a weaker lysander Z can one shot flying vehicles all throughout entire game even into the dlc missions.

welp at least now ranger has very good shotguns and assault rifles. The trade-off is worth it imo

[Vℓα∂y]

Originally posted by BluntProfile:

welp at least now ranger has very good shotguns and assault rifles. The trade-off is worth it imo

Which is why most people use the slaughter shotgun, they are looking for that strong range option that's practical, slaughter fits that bill best as a replacement gun for anti-air that can fill the need to one shot enemies like Type 2 Drones. Shotguns having very good practical usage, snipers aren't something you should use unless your forced to use them on a target you can't close the distance on of if your doing one of bike runaway strats and you slowly pick things off from a distance every now and then.

[New Breakfast]

you're only thinking of ranger's snipers right?

epsilon replaces my sniper if i absolutely need to bring two weapons that aren't snipers, like on teleportation anchor missions.

also complement's my sniper's damage if it's safe to bring and use.

try to find ones with faster reload and high accuracy (also damage) if you have to use them. if you don't think you're forced to use them, then don't.

probably should also check if the weapon's aim is upgrade level 1-3, which can mean they still have potential to have good accuracy

[Vℓα∂y]

Originally posted by Detective Breakfast:

try to find ones with faster reload and high accuracy (also damage) if you have to use them. if you don't think you're forced to use them, then don't.

Just out of curiousity, have you tried the NP burst snipers, they have good damage, the level 49 one has an okay 3 second reload with 2100 damage but level 75 one is 4400 damage with 7.5 second reload, and man do I despise the 75 sniper, you can use it on like last few stages of hardest, but in those stages especially ones where everything is rushing u, using a long reload sniper seems like such a bad idea, I have no idea why they couldn't keep the 75 NP to 3second reload like 49 NP.

[New Breakfast]

Originally posted by 🌼Vℓα∂y🌻:

Just out of curiousity, have you tried the NP burst snipers, they have good damage, the level 49 one has an okay 3 second reload with 2100 damage but level 75 one is 4400 damage with 7.5 second reload, and man do I despise the 75 sniper, you can use it on like last few stages of hardest, but in those stages especially ones where everything is rushing u, using a long reload sniper seems like such a bad idea, I have no idea why they couldn't keep the 75 NP to 3second reload like 49 NP.

3-burst? sure i have. they have great damage, but i probably have never even touched the lvl75 one. im very very sure there are better options, dunkel or something. sandlot made weird choices with the balancing