LinkStrife 28 кві 2013 о 12:00am
Mods killed Skyrim
I was surprised to hear that there would not be any other expansion packs for Skyrim. After all, the game has been hugely successful. Bethesda's previous full game, Fallout 3, received no less than five full scale expansion packs. I was hoping Skyrim would receive at least as many. But that is not going to happen, it seems.

Skyrim is suffering from an endless string of posts complaining of CTDs. Posts that, nine times out of ten, name the cause of the problem to be mods. I have asked a few times that people post questions about mods in the "Skyrim Wortkshop Discussion" forum to no avail. It seems many players, at least the ones who are complaining on the forums, complain about the problems caused by mods and do so on the "General Discussions" forum. All these complaints make the game look bad. I play vanilla Skyrim and have a very pleasant gaming experience. People come and read the "General Discussions" forum and get a very negative idea of the game.

Most people are experiencing problems because they use mods or they cheat using the console command. Then they complain on the main forum and make the game look bad.

I am not saying that Bethesda decided to abandon Skyrim because of all the negativity from the community, but it is certainly a possibility. I don't know of any other game where the community is so critical of the game they are playing. Maybe Bethesda just had enough of the negative comments from the community and decided to move on. I certainly would not blame them. People criticize the game for having bugs while the bugs are caused by mods.

Some people say that mods add to the longevity of a game. I say that it is the opposite. Mods killed Skyrim and the problems caused by mods is why we don't get any other expantion packs for Skyrim.


edit:
Please note that the present thread had been dead for a few months and has now been resurrected. Of course, you are still welcomed to post your comments if you are interested but please take the time to read the following post I wrote on 2nd May. I thought it would end the debate but it did not:

"Consensus is that mods did NOT kill Skyrim!. I am ready to abandon ship. Here are some numbers that helped me changed my mind. As of 7.31.2012, Skyrim had sold 10 million copies. Seven of those ten million copies were sold within one week after launch. Therefore releasing a major title is what brings in the bulk of the money. I am joining those who said that Bethesda left Skyrim behind in order to be able to release a new major title as soon as possible.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. It was fun. (Well for the most part anyway...)

P.S.: I haven't change my mind about one thing: it is extremely annoying to read posts by people who wrecked their game because they used mods without sufficient knowledge and then cry foul that Skyrim is full of bugs."


Thank you once again to everyone who posted.
Автор останньої редакції: LinkStrife; 3 лип 2013 о 1:07pm
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Adura 28 кві 2013 о 12:06am 
hmm...
Well, first off, there are tons of ppl who play Skyrim on xbox and ps3, which is a large pool of players and customers not afflicted with such instabilities. I'm sure Bethesda could make plenty of money from making expansions for them, if nothing else.

In fact, the only ppl I know who play Skyrim for the PC are people who did so explicitly for the mods - which they also understood to have the potential in making their game less stable. That said, there are still people who are new to these things, who are likely the ones making such posts.

Additionally, Morrowind and Oblivion both had only 2 expansions. Bethesda probably decided to stop after 2 for the same reasons as they had for their last two TES games - to devote resources to other projects.

Besides, Skyrim is not the most stable game even without mods =/ (not harping on it, it's a fantastic game <3).

My 2 cents....can I get change for that? :D
LinkStrife 28 кві 2013 о 12:14am 
Цитата допису Adura:
In fact, the only ppl I know who play Skyrim for the PC are people who did so explicitly for the mods

You obviously don't know the same people I do. Most people I know enjoy the game the way it was meant to be played: without mods.
United_Strafes 28 кві 2013 о 12:21am 
Well if you don't know what you're doing you shouldn't be messing with mods anyway, play the vanilla game. Vanilla Skyrim is hardly stable without any modding.

If you're not prepared to root out and identify problems or are uncomfortable messing around in your computer, again you shouldn't mess with mods anyway.

There weren't a heap of extra content for the other games either except Fallout New Vegas, it was time to move on to thier next project.

Besides Dragonborn was the only worthwhile DLC anyway Dawnguard was just ok.
Adura 28 кві 2013 о 12:27am 
Цитата допису United_Strafes:
Vanilla Skyrim is hardly stable without any modding.

True. It hasn't yet been made clear that there are a handful of mods made specifically to add to Skyrim's stability. There are even fixes to things from the vanilla game that are, quite frankly, broken or exceedingly bugger =/.

Which is understandable, given the complexity and expansiveness of the game itself.
Kelvy 28 кві 2013 о 12:31am 
I played vanilla now just putting mods in, just background changes eg houses, towns, forts. My motto is download mod, run game if works ok, if not remove, move onto next mod repeat process slow I know but no glitches. Have to remove 2 mods put them on trash heap so far.
Alkpaz 28 кві 2013 о 12:33am 
1. Most gamers are console players
2. Skyrim was made for consoles (see whole argument on "Are consoles holding PC gaming back")

Thus, Beth made more money from Skyrim on the consoles than it did in PC gaming (gaming on the PC IS expensive and IS a hobby) Consoles CAN be a hobby as well, but can attract "casual" players as well (main market target = larger pool of profits)

People often run into problems because they do NOT understand the basics of gaming on the PC.

DOS based games like X-Wing sold plenty, and REQUIRED "boot disks" something PC gamers knew how to create and work with. Editing autoexec.bat files, config.sys etc to squeeze out enough conventional memory to work with.

Modding isn't new, nor is it a cause of "abandoned" games. I can make a few observations for this and I would point to the increased availablity of the internet and with more and more user friendly GUIs.

This topic, in my humble opinion, could be massive if seen from all angles.

BTW, Counter Strike, originally a Half-Life mod, is the most popular game Valve has. This is DUE to modding, not in spite of it. Team Fortress was also a mod, I might add. ;)

(Team Fortress is a team- and class-based online multiplayer video game mod originally based on the first person shooter Quake, made by id Software. Team Fortress was designed and written by Robin Walker, John Cook and Ian Caughley in 1996. The mod's gameplay has caught on with a large following of fans, which has spurred many developers to create similar gamemodes on other engines.)

Killing Floor a mod of Unreal Tournament 2 also a "fluke"?
stabbykitteh 28 кві 2013 о 12:38am 
People are still buying Morrowind and Oblivion 12 and 6 years after their respective releases largely because of the still active modding communities for both of those titles. You can throw Fallout 3 in there as well. That's what people mean by adding to the longevity of the games.

Bethesda themselves release the tools and all of these games are designed around being modded. How they are meant to be played is up to the individual playing them.
Sku11M0nkey 28 кві 2013 о 12:45am 
Also to add to Adura's comments Bethesda was actually working on 2 more expansions for the game but decided they had to pull their resources to work on Fallout4 coming out later this year/early next year.

Also its really hard for you to lay down such a harsh criticism of mods when you've never tried them yourself. Anyone who really has tried out the top mods for skyrim really never go back because it enhances the game so much.

I mean the "Warzones Civil Unrest" mod is enough reason alone to download a copy of Nexus mod manager. The problem is that modding with Skyrim is so much different from say TF2 or Portal 2 because its not compartmentalized so mods can conflict with each other. Thus with Skyrim mods on steam you get a lot of ppl unfamiliar with modding trying it out on a lark withouth knowing how to properly use/manage mods. Things such as load order and mod conflicts are things very foreign to most users but are necessary evils you have to learn about in order to properly pay a modded version of Skyrim. I think the steam workshop needs to have more educational materials on the steam workshop so that they can educate people before they start experimenting with mods.
Alkpaz 28 кві 2013 о 12:46am 
Цитата допису Sku11M0nkey:
Also to add to Adura's comments Bethesda was actually working on 2 more expansions for the game but decided they had to pull their resources to work on Fallout4 coming out later this year/early next year.

Also its really hard for you to lay down such a harsh criticism of mods when you've never tried them yourself. Anyone who really has tried out the top mods for skyrim really never go back because it enhances the game so much.

I mean the "Warzones Civil Unrest" mod is enough reason alone to download a copy of Nexus mod manager. The problem is that modding with Skyrim is so much different from say TF2 or Portal 2 because its not compartmentalized so mods can conflict with each other. Thus with Skyrim mods on steam you get a lot of ppl unfamiliar with modding trying it out on a lark withouth knowing how to properly use/manage mods. Things such as load order and mod conflicts are things very foreign to most users but are necessary evils you have to learn about in order to properly pay a modded version of Skyrim. I think the steam workshop needs to have more educational materials on the steam workshop so that they can educate people before they start experimenting with mods.

QFT, very well stated. ;)
LinkStrife 28 кві 2013 о 12:48am 
Цитата допису stabbykitteh:
People are still buying Morrowind and Oblivion 12 and 6 years after their respective releases largely because of the still active modding communities for both of those titles. You can throw Fallout 3 in there as well. That's what people mean by adding to the longevity of the games.

People are still playing Morrowind, Oblibion and Fallout 3 (myself included) because they are great games as is, not because they can be modded.

Цитата допису stabbykitteh:
Bethesda themselves release the tools and all of these games are designed around being modded. How they are meant to be played is up to the individual playing them.

The incentive to mod games is there to sell more games, not to make the game more stable.
stabbykitteh 28 кві 2013 о 12:50am 
I don't believe I said anything about stability.
Alkpaz 28 кві 2013 о 12:52am 
Цитата допису LinkStrife:

The incentive to mod games is there to sell more games, not to make the game more stable.

So, Counter Strike is less stable? Garry's Mod? Team Fortress? Killing Floor? Why the heck do people play them so damn much? Masochistic desire?

We are talking about Skyrim, but if you are going to talk about modding, then how do you explain mods that ARE "stable" and in fact became blockbuster hits?
LinkStrife 28 кві 2013 о 12:53am 
Цитата допису Sku11M0nkey:
Also its really hard for you to lay down such a harsh criticism of mods when you've never tried them yourself. Anyone who really has tried out the top mods for skyrim really never go back because it enhances the game so much.

I am talking about the infinite number of mods that are creating problems with the main game. The forums are full of them!
Alkpaz 28 кві 2013 о 12:56am 
People go to the forums when they have a problem. Some people go to the forums to learn about other sites, mods, etc that they didn't look at or don't know much about. Some are here for "technical issues" relating to OS/hardware.

If I were to watch the news all day and all night, I would think humanity is going to hell FAST. This is a distorted view.
LinkStrife 28 кві 2013 о 12:59am 
If they were "designed around being modded" I figured that you meant that such modding would be stable!
Цитата допису stabbykitteh:
I don't believe I said anything about stability.
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