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Joe... The model is awesome, except his animations... They are a HUGE step down from Gene.... (Shoulder twisting and ♥♥♥♥) Though... Gene seems to have a robotic tick now... It's weird and makes him feel less alive than before... (Joe seems to have that same tick...)
I also feel SEVERELY nerfed... While I KOed Joe in round 3, all my hits felt and sounded soft... Didn't knock Gene down at all, but he got me KDed in 2 hits... His combo was also boringly long... Rather, he repeated it over and over for a solid 8 seconds... I felt like my chin was lowered, my accuracy worsened, my power lowered, and their speed and power increased...
Also, I didn't manage to make either of them bleed tonight which supports the above...
Auto calibrator on, 110% chin as usual, 12 rounds.
Went back in and did some testing on the bag and dummy...
I'm hitting with 3-4k raw force... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that pretty substantial?
(It's nearly impossible to really hit that spot right behind the jaw btw... Glove touches something else first and kinda rolls away instead of continuing to go some before rolling as it would irl... I could hit the right side with my left hand however... But at my speeds, I think the physics are getting weird...? Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, but please tell me why it feels so different tonight...)
EDIT: Just went in again... Ya, this beta feels like a step or three backwards :(
And more input on Joe... His guard is silly... Elbows inside himself, shoulder and elbow twisting like it's possesed, he's getting WAY too close... Often finding him inside me. I did finally make him bleed ONCE however... But ya... Please tell me if the nerfing of the player was intentional, and if to this extent?
I'll have a play with it tonight, Had to take the weekend off after I fainted whilst going for a wee, faceplanted a shelf, and put my teeth clean through my bottom lip. Ouch! Spent seven hours in A&E and now look like Mickey Rourke. I feel like me and Ugly Joe is an appropriate freak show carnivale type gym war for tonight!
No need to ever be sorry about this, especially on the beta where the point is for me to try things and see what sticks. I often push stuff out in sort of a rough state to get feedback before I spend too much time on something, and then polish it up after I see what initial feedback is like.
First off:
I did definitely and intentionally nerf the player in this update. Feedback here from the last update was that everyone was TKOing their opponent in round 1, so I addressed a couple of things I felt were giving the player too much power without touching the player's baseline power level. The 15% bonus from the mass transfer system was way too easy to get under the last update, which has been corrected, and it seemed way too easy to rely on uppercuts, so I toned their bonus down slightly (although I realize now I forgot to change what the boxing dummy shows - will fix!).
The auto-calibrator changes under the last update should have helped make changing the Chin value less necessary. You were basically using it to counter-act the 15% damage bonus. Now that the bonus is harder to get, you need to change your Chin setting to compensate.
If you feel weak and you have Chin turned up - turn Chin down. It's only really a problem if you have to take it below 100% for the game to feel right.
There are some visual problems with the new Joe model that I'll hopefully get polished up before his live release. For the robotic tick, I assume you mean the stiff animation when they move small distances (which I made some adjustments to that didn't really help, which is probably what you're noticing).
I've got some ideas about what may be suddenly causing this that I'll be looking into.
It is, but the auto-calibrator is there to automatically adjust you to the right setting so that you don't have to mess with Chin. Chin is meant to be there to challenge yourself, not to balance the game.
Unlike bruising, bleeding isn't currently based on the power of your hit in any way.
One thing I'm worried about that might be affecting all these things is that your framerate might have taken a hit - enough to drop you below 90fps. I think the new visual effect when you clip into your opponent might have added a small amount of extra work for the GPU, but if you were maxing out supersampling then it might have pushed you over the edge.
I can adjust this, but I'm not really happy with this weak spot in general. The AI have a hard time covering it, so I've adjusted it to be harder to hit. With the extra distance the opponents keep in this update, it might be OK to make it easier to hit, though.
Well this is a big problem since I spent a lot of time for this update focusing on preventing this. Was this only happening after he would step in with a punch or did he seem to want to distance himself that close normally?
I've got my fingers crossed that this solves a lot of the problem, at least.
Oh man, that sucks. I hope the fainting isn't from anything serious!
This is a great example of why the auto-calibrator is so necessary. Under my damage system, which is focused on differentiating your weak and strong hits from each other, I wouldn't be able to create an opponent that was competitive for you without him being a complete pushover for Turbatus or competitive for Turbatus without being untouchable for you.
The tick is more of a standing still, but a robotic looking head tilt.
For the combo, alright. Because right now I can block the entire fury fairly consistently when I see it coming, and don't even need to move my hands... 8 seconds doesn't sound like much, but in the moment it feels like forever :P (Giving each fighter ~3 different combos to randomly choose would fix this(They can randomly choose 1 of the 3 that require blocking different spots instead of the same predictable combo), but also probably require a large amount of work on your end... I understand if you don't really feel like doing that, at least not right now)
What determines bleeding anyways?
For my SS, I turned it down from 3.0 to 2.0 (Still looks good, and runs very well. I lowered it to that this update before even knowing you increased gpu workload :P ) Maybe the accuracy feeling is adjusting to their new position... I'll try to verify that feeling tonight. The loss of power and chin things you explained well above.
When on the offensive, he wanted to stay inside me, but during normal, and "neutral" he was spaced pretty decently. But I was still winning by score despite my hits feeling softer, so it kept him on the offensive pretty regularly.
I'm going back to the what I was using in the previous update. It's stiffer, but it doesn't have that weird robotic head and left arm movement you're talking about.
The AI actually combos opportunistically where it thinks you're open at, and doesn't have pre-canned combos. What's happened here, I think, is that there was a head target on the player that was in a weird place that the AI always thought was open. It didn't seem to be necessary, so I turned it off, but it was actually causing the AI to throw more straights even if they were guaranteed to get blocked, which inadvertently led to more combo variety. It wasn't hurting anything, so I'm just going to turn it back on.
I might need to adjust what it thinks "open" is a bit, too, because I think the extra distance is making it harder to land hooks without hitting the player's guard.
8 seconds is a very long time. I'd want about 5 or 6 swings at most before the AI gives up and backs off, so I'll check their punch stamina usage out, too.
Purely random chance to open a cut when you hit certain areas on their head.
There actually might not be any significant extra GPU load. I just know when my frames drop below 90fps and starts reprojecting, the game feels way off.
Its definitely went down in progress.
Weak taps again, right hands floating threw worse than before. It just feels off and like a downgrade from the last beta.
I just feel a lot weaker than i should. I couldnt play past 7 rounds. I just wasnt having fun.
So to elaborate on my Rift tilting screen.
I am resetting my “view” probably every time i weave and dodge punches. Its made the game completely fraustating to play. And it breaks my heart to say that. The view will tilt and i will be Fighting Gene completely sideways, this is the first time i got motion sickness playing any VR game. Its bad. Didnt happen as much in previous betas. I tried other games and this just didnt happen. Im going to reset my oculus and run the setup again. Hopefully this will fix it?
Once i get over this motion sickness, ill try again.
And yeah, the new model looks great but just doesn’t “feel”
I hate to bring all the negatives. But i just couldnt play with this drifting in my headset.
For the record, played on 100 chin, could have knocked out Gene, Joe, and spider on first round but i decieded to space it out to last longer. Just seemed they were easier but just punching harder?
No worries. Like I said to Turbatus before, the point of the beta branch is to get early feedback on some things. Expect there to be rough edges and some things that need reverting. The goal is to get it fixed up before it goes to the live branch. Thank you for participating, as it would be impossible to do without feedback like yours.
I'm confused a bit by the feedback here. So you're comfortable with the rate of knockdowns you're able to achieve (or maybe they're too easy even?), but the impression you were getting was that your hits felt weaker than they should? If I were to keep everything the same but boost the volume / opponent reactions, would that solve the problem you're describing?
As for the right hands floating through, are you confident you're actually hitting their heads, or is it possible they're leaning forward to counter-punch and you're missing them? The extra distance they give you now means they might be leaning forward more now to reach you, which could be exacerbating the problem.
And as far as how hard they hit - the only change made there was that Gene had his damage increased slightly to match Joe's and Luis's.
I'm still not completely clear on this. So your view through the Rift is getting permanently rotated? Like where if you stand straight up with your head level, the view is tilted?
When you reset the view, what exactly are you doing to do that? Does the Oculus software have a "reset" option of some sort?
If you want to compare to the previous version, there's a rollback branch that's on the last beta. There's also the live branch on an older version, as well. I think this is an Oculus software/hardware issue though as there shouldn't be anything on TotF's end that would cause this to happen.
Is it something you can replicate if you quickly snap your head in a certain direction or something like that?
Can you check your framerate / reprojected frames? Like I mentioned to Turbatus earlier, there might have been a slight GPU workload increase, and if that's dragging people under 90fps to where it starts reprojecting, then the game can feel really gross.
Before starting the beta I did another run of the live version for comparison - kos were very rapid. Usually r1.
Ran through the first few opponents. Didn't finish Spider until the third round. Dropped Duke but couldn't finish him - he also dropped me once when I tried to box instead of fighting from the outside. It might be inexperience but I found fighting from outside was way better than trying to box up close. Most of the AIs gave me trouble if I tried to stay in the pocket. I'd like an option to turn down the speed so I can practice boxing closer up instead of relying entirely on distance control.
The consistently high guard by the AI meant that jabbing to the face wasn't terribly effective, though it kept the ai from opening up much. The AI had almost no answer to lunging body jabs except to cover up, even though there (probably) wasn't much force behind them, so it was a useful tool to stifle forward movement and rack up points. It's better at dealing with body work if they're coming in as hooks, but it still mostly focuses on the head. Still got body-shot knockdowns or kos against most opponents - bodywork might be too effective? Jabs shouldn't be that good. I found that the AI was better at countering anything besides straights. I had trouble connecting with hooks to the head, at least against Luis and Duke. Didn't manage to cut anyone, but I didn't get many hits to the head. If I got several it usually resulted in a knockdown.
There were a few instances where the AI seemed to close distance very rapidly - quickly enough that I wasn't sure if it was intentional.
Game started to stutter a little towards the end.
WMR still has the shadow artifact.
I'd like a "debug" or "arcade" mode that displays relevant data for stamina, etc. + records whether hits connect and with how much force so I have a better idea of what is going on in a match.
Auto-calibration is on by default.
All sounds good, and good to know.
The 40+ m/s hits tend to happen if the tracking skips (like on the Odyssey, for example, if the controller gets out of the tracking area and then snaps back in when it gets picked up again). The auto-calibrator looks for inhumanly fast hits like this and just counts them as whatever your top-end hit tends to be.
The "Fist Speed" setting under the customization menu should be what you're looking for to do this.
Were they taking swings at you as you came in, but missing? Or were you out-ranging them?
I'm now at a convenient point to attempt an upgrade to a new Unity version. I downloaded the latest version and will be doing some proof of concept tests to see if this has been fixed in the latest version, and if so, then I'll just have to pick a week to be miserable while I work through all the upgrade bugs.
I'm glad to hear the Odyssey works well with the game overall, though.
Would floating (and colored) numbers work well enough for this for what you're desiring? It shouldn't be too bad to add an option for this to the customize menu.
Overall, how did you feel about your play-through? Did you enjoy it? Did anything in particular stand out to you as overly "off"?
The matches you described seemed in the ballpark of how I'm intending them, if not too easy for you even.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it!
No just like Mr.Turbatus is saying, i just feel overall weaker, when i shouldn't.
I watched my hits tap him or just float right threw. When im throwing hay makers. I rolled back to the previous beta and it's just perfect again. The leaning forward isn't a problem, it makes it more realistic. But im seeing my glove go threw him or just 'Tap" with no power.
So my rift headset. if im standing completely still. the screen is completely rotated sideways in the direction i weave my body. So if im dodging a right punch from Gene and i move to my right, it'll start tilting clockwise. and stay there or get worse with each dodge. The oculus has a "reset view" button that fixes it. but continues to do this every time i move suddenly.
I'm trying to figure it out if its my extension cable or it could be my sensors. it just doesn't seem to happen in any other game and seemed to happen more at this beta, then the previous ones. it's the weirdest thing.
as far as Gene and the knockdowns, i've always been able to knock anyone except Duke out in the first round. That hasn't changed for me, all i did was roll chin to 125, and I can now go the full 12. If anything its always been easy to knock them down. I guess i just noticed Gene is stronger. which i'm okay with. Its just i feel overall weaker, i guess the right word is "impact" here. I can still knock them out, but more hits seems to be weaker than it should be. and i know you lowered the uppercut power which i think sits right when i do hit it.
Outranging. Was effectively a fencing lunge with a fist at the end, so I could get probably a meter or so distance on it. I don't know how many people could pull that off repeatedly over multiple rounds, though. Being countered to the head as I came in would have discouraged me from abusing it. So would setting the abdomen slightly further back compared to the head / gloves - a more forward and slightly less upright stance.
Absolutely. Especially combined with an after-action report of some kind and/or some documentation explaining some of the mechanics
Haven't played much, but I did enjoy it. Some odd moments with gloves. I'll do a previous beta branch test (with chins turned up maybe) and see how it compares.
The other thing that happened sometimes was the AI seemed able to throw some pretty serious power punches while moving rapidly forwards. I started tossing out the jabs because as long as I dropped one every couple seconds it didn't rush in, but there were a couple times when it closed distance very quickly and clocked me without seeming to have time to set its feet. This only happened once or twice, so I don't know if I'm misunderstanding it yet. Does throwing while moving change the power at which the AI punches? How about comparitive movement between parties? If I'm moving forward and get caught by a jab, does it hurt more than one where we're both still, or I'm moving back?
Cool! They might have been harder but I did cheese them a bit, I feel.
But that debug mode would really help me give you solid feedback, a very good suggestion! Would see how often punches "glitch" and give obscene numbers, how often good punches don't count, etc. Speed bag will also let us see if faster punches are being registered on something moving a bit if you set it up to have some physics to it and monitor hits. I'd suggest showing the last 10 hits for that though for good information.
Despite me winning by a long shot, my hits did feel pretty weak. Maybe because the AI seems stiff now? idk...
Another question I have that I keep forgetting to ask... Uppercuts. If I throw one and it hits the stomach/chest first, but I continue the motion aiming for the chin, can I get hard hits on both weak points? I FEEL like that's what's happening at times, but can't be sure... But the boxers do stand rather straight up for fighting... Like thier chest and chin are roughly the same spot perpendicular to the floor. Also, not really sure WHY, but I seem to have a really hard time getting the liver without the elbow, though the weak spot itself seems a bit small for the liver. It is a pretty big organ and you seem to have only the top corner of it as a weak spot.
The ref (Hoping the new ref model looks more like how he sounds...) was doing a LOT of yelling to "get off of him" to the other boxer nearly everytime he threw a combo. More so with Gene, but with Joe also.