That god danm machina!

[Johnners]

Iv'e gotta say, over the years vaulve have added some awful weapons to this game (E.g the winger) but the one that pisses me of the most is the machina. It seems cool at first, hell who wouldn't want to beable to kill almost every class with a single body shot? but i swear that weapon has no real drawbacks. the tracers don't realy matter because anything that sniper sees dies. even if you know where they are (Majority of the time) and id say about 80% of players don't no scope as it does less damage. so thats my rant so, what are your opinions and thoughts. does it need a nerf? do you think it should be removed? or do you like it?

[icehat]

I agree, the nerf isn't very large.
At the same time, the buff isn't very big either, so it's fairly balanced.

[Gibs]

I get pissed at snipers because they will kill me with a headshot no matter what.
Since I dont die with body shots much, I dont really see the problem :)

[i am god]

Sniper taking no effort to kill but simply bodyshot are awfull. They just shoot and have no accuracy at all... So they just bodyshot every one and then say they are pros.

[Johnners]

some realy good points guy's (also how the ♥♥♥♥ did i manage to spell damn wrong...)

[Smugleaf]

The Machina is pretty annoying and should get a rework. A nerf wouldn't fix it being annoying and Valve probably wouldn't remove it. It makes bodyshots better for no good reason and it doesn't even have any real downsides. The tracers don't really mean much after the sniper gets his first kill, and a sniper should be dead if he ever needs to fire while unscoped.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bluevestguy:

Sniper taking no effort to kill but simply bodyshot are awfull. They just shoot and have no accuracy at all... So they just bodyshot every one and then say they are pros.

I seriously doubt that the ones that bodyshot often think that they are good, or at least make it known to everyone else. Only people that are trolling with the Machina by bodyshotting and taunting would do that.

[Chairforce]

The drawbacks are vast, actually.
The tracers are giving away your position with every shot you fire, forcing you to relocate after every shot fired or you're easy prey or at least easily bypassable for any foe with half a brain.
The lack of no-scopes takes away any combat existance at medium range, disqualifying this weapon for use in combination with any non-damaging secondary, and even for the Cleaner's Carabiner it is unfit because of it's inability to put out 150 damage no-scopes without mobility or field of view drawbacks.

And the upsides?
After spending over 3 seconds to charge your shot [what kind if Sniper does that on a regular basis to begin with??] you get ~22,5 extra bodyshot damage.
Great fortune. Unless damagespread is a. enabled and b. on your side this is not breaking any damage thresholds and won't ever make a difference towards stock unless your target is wounded already.
And I'm not even speaking of how controllable, reliable and useful of a perk the projectile penetration isn't.

Matter of fact the Machina is probably the single worst primary to pick for any sniper with at least half a brain.
Even if you bodyshot significantly more often than you headshot it is a bad choice because the Sidney Sleeper is already filling that niche.





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[Smugleaf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ROYAL_CHAIRFORCE:

The drawbacks are vast, actually.
The tracers are giving away your position with every shot you fire, forcing you to relocate after every shot fired or you're easy prey or at least easily bypassable for any foe with half a brain.
The lack of no-scopes takes away any combat existance at medium range, disqualifying this weapon for use in combination with any non-damaging secondary, and even for the Cleaner's Carabiner it is unfit because of it's inability to put out 150 damage no-scopes without mobility or field of view drawbacks.

The tracer only gives your position away after one kill or a miss. By then, you would probably know the sniper's position. If your team is good and communicating, the tracer becomes an even more laughable downside. Snipers won't last long at medium range with no scopes. No scopes are also hardly effective against good players. At best you would get one hit in before you get killed.

And the upsides?
After spending over 3 seconds to charge your shot [what kind if Sniper does that on a regular basis to begin with??] you get ~22,5 extra bodyshot damage.
Great fortune. Unless damagespread is a. enabled and b. on your side this is not breaking any damage thresholds and won't ever make a difference towards stock unless your target is wounded already.
And I'm not even speaking of how controllable, reliable and useful of a perk the projectile penetration isn't.

The downsides don't negate the upsides. Snipers would need to charge to take out medics when they are hard to hit. You usually wouldn't want to bother risking a failed headshot and trying again over an easy and more relaible bodyshot. The extra damage isn't that great, but considering the downsides, there isn't a reason not to use it and the chances of sometimes killing a demo and pyro is also good. The penetration can also be used to fire behind the medic's pocket.

Matter of fact the Machina is probably the single worst primary to pick for any sniper with at least half a brain.
Even if you bodyshot significantly more often than you headshot it is a bad choice because the Sidney Sleeper is already filling that niche.

That position would go to the Huntsman if you're playing seriously. The Machina does not have any noteworthy downsides that make it worse than the stock.

[comfort EAGLE - cake]

It's a pretty meh weapon, it's upsides are negligible to people who are actually decent and it's downsides are pretty brutal if you're going against people who actually *gasp* work as a team in a team based game!

[Smugleaf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Magickus:

It's a pretty meh weapon, it's upsides are negligible to people who are actually decent and it's downsides are pretty brutal if you're going against people who actually *gasp* work as a team in a team based game!

If you're playing against a decent team, wouldn't that make the downsides more negligible? A sniper would get called out once he gets a kill, so the tracer would only affect the sniper if he misses. No scopes won't also work against a decent team.

[comfort EAGLE - cake]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von A | Smuglord:

If you're playing against a decent team, wouldn't that make the downsides more negligible? A sniper would get called out once he gets a kill, so the tracer would only affect the sniper if he misses. No scopes won't also work against a decent team.

Well no human Sniper has the accuracy of an aimbot, once he inevitably misses a shot he'll get his location called out. It'll be even EASIER to call out his location if he's a Machina Sniper. Also the no no scopes thing is more of a "oh man, that kinda stinks" kinda downside but not a major one that makes you debate whether you should use weapon X over weapon Y.

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Probably the best thing they could do is make the on-full-charge damage bonus be a headshot damage bonus.

[comfort EAGLE - cake]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von {MGCH}BBSOS Itsuki Koizumi:

Probably the best thing they could do is make the on-full-charge damage bonus be a headshot damage bonus.

Overkill much?

[Zyroxeon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Magickus:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von {MGCH}BBSOS Itsuki Koizumi:

Probably the best thing they could do is make the on-full-charge damage bonus be a headshot damage bonus.

Overkill much?

I'd love it for just enough to quickhead Pyro's.

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Magickus:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von {MGCH}BBSOS Itsuki Koizumi:

Probably the best thing they could do is make the on-full-charge damage bonus be a headshot damage bonus.

Overkill much?

Makes skill shots rewarded over bodyshots. I'd say that's good.

[Smugleaf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Magickus:

Well no human Sniper has the accuracy of an aimbot, once he inevitably misses a shot he'll get his location called out. It'll be even EASIER to call out his location if he's a Machina Sniper.

If the sniper does miss, the Machina does make it easy to locate him, but I don't really think that it outweighs the upsides though. If the enemy team doesn't notice the sniper, it isn't that hard to aim and kill someone unless they're dodging and the sniper is aiming for a headshot.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zyroxeon:

I'd love it for just enough to quickhead Pyro's.

The damage bonus only applies to fully charged shots, so quickscoping wouldn't instantly kill pyros.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von {MGCH}BBSOS Itsuki Koizumi:

Makes skill shots rewarded over bodyshots. I'd say that's good.

It wouldn't really affect anything though, except Fist of Steel heavies, but they aren't common compared to the GRU.